fluffc
Member
Is it possible to bareboat charter gaffers anywhere in the UK?
Gaff Yacht Charter in UK?
- Thread starter fluffc
- Start date
Kristal
New member
I don't know of any coastal or offshore companies doing it, but you can do it inland on the Norfolk Broads with this company. I taught myself to sail on a small gaff centenarian from them, their support is superb and the Broads is a wonderful sailing area.
/<
/<
burgundyben
Well-known member
Have you looked through thwe back pages of Classic Boat? Maybe something there?
hantsgaffer
New member
You can charter Shrimpers in a couple of places, Cornish Blue in Falmouth (who also run a Pilot Cutter - skippered only I think) and over at walton on naze - swatchway shrimpers? springs to mind, a quick google will find either. No connection with them apart from a day sail with Cornish Blue this year, which was very good. If you find anyone else i'd be interested.
andrewbodenham
Member
Inland on the Norfolk Broads - try Hunter's Yard for beautiful yachts and halfdeckers practically unchanged since they were built in the 1930's. A fantastic place. Also try the Swallowtail Boatyard (Colin Buttifant), Eastwood Whelpton and the Norfolk Broads Yachting Co. for big gaff rig yachts. A google search will find all of these for you.
Some people may scoff at Broads sailing, but I can tell you that you'll learn more about boat handling in an hour on the Broads than you will in a day at sea. It can be the most technically challenging sailing at times, but conducted in an inherently safe and forgiving environment. And there's nowhere else where you can hire such grand old boats so cheaply, in many cases without paper qualifications. Give it a go.
Some people may scoff at Broads sailing, but I can tell you that you'll learn more about boat handling in an hour on the Broads than you will in a day at sea. It can be the most technically challenging sailing at times, but conducted in an inherently safe and forgiving environment. And there's nowhere else where you can hire such grand old boats so cheaply, in many cases without paper qualifications. Give it a go.
fluffc
Member
I'm thinking more about larger coastal yachts - 10m or so. It is possible to charter quite sizeable plastic fantastic bermudan rigged afairs, but are there any companies out there bareboat chartering sizeable gaffers?
Mirelle
N/A
Do I sense a business opportunity?
I suspect that bareboat chartering a boat "of a certain age" would be quiet tricky because almost everything is non-standard and she handles very differently to a modern boat.
I suspect that bareboat chartering a boat "of a certain age" would be quiet tricky because almost everything is non-standard and she handles very differently to a modern boat.
Kristal
New member
Re: Do I sense a business opportunity?
Well, try a little experiment to assess the viability of this potential opportunity: pack off a family in Mirelle for a weekend, and see how well you sleep!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Quite seriously, I think you have already nailed the problem - adaptation to an old boat takes more time than a week, and an accident could be very expensive indeed.
/<
Well, try a little experiment to assess the viability of this potential opportunity: pack off a family in Mirelle for a weekend, and see how well you sleep!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Quite seriously, I think you have already nailed the problem - adaptation to an old boat takes more time than a week, and an accident could be very expensive indeed.
/<
Roach1948
New member
Re: Do I sense a business opportunity?
Agreed - I reckon many a (professional) skipper of a 10m or so AWB will have problems bare-boating a long keeler let alone a Gaff rig, a couple of highfield levers, some Wykeham-Martin furling gear and an offset prop. I reckon a family crew could be in for more than they bargained for!
Agreed - I reckon many a (professional) skipper of a 10m or so AWB will have problems bare-boating a long keeler let alone a Gaff rig, a couple of highfield levers, some Wykeham-Martin furling gear and an offset prop. I reckon a family crew could be in for more than they bargained for!
fluffc
Member
Re: Do I sense a business opportunity?
Hypothetically, what would then 'qualifiy' someone to bareboat charter a gaffer?
Hypothetically, what would then 'qualifiy' someone to bareboat charter a gaffer?
Roach1948
New member
Re: Do I sense a business opportunity?
I would say reversing onto a finger pontoon with long keel and offset prop - it's in these situations where there is the most risk of most damage. It can be very challenging on skipper and crew and you really need to use prop walk and know that astern in full does almost nothing to slow you!
I would say reversing onto a finger pontoon with long keel and offset prop - it's in these situations where there is the most risk of most damage. It can be very challenging on skipper and crew and you really need to use prop walk and know that astern in full does almost nothing to slow you!
Santana379
Member
Re: Do I sense a business opportunity?
I may have posted this anecdote before, but in Nov'02 I went in to the Tidemill as crew on Mirelle. I actually went in aboard a launch strapped to the side, to supplement the low powed aux engine with the offset prop, as we were racing the tide due to a fog delay. I was cast off at the entrance, and Mirelle's skipper took her in single-handed, towing his tender. I moored and went to the pontoon to take warps. He reversed in to one of the tightest berths (one down from the Tidemill, 49' of boat incl. bowsprit), touching nothing, and then put out fenders once the warps were attached! OK, the wind wasn't blowing, but you can't do that on first acquaintance with a long keeler!
By and large modern sloops are all the same, and are so simple they can be sailed and moored by relative beginners, even stern-to, and are on flotilla holidays of course. Older boats, gaff rigged or not, tend to vary a lot more, and require familiarisation. E.G. you certainly must be able to competently operate the reefing system the first time you need to for real. To charter one I guess you would need quite a few sea miles under your belt in a similar style of boat, and a damn good handover. The boat also needs to be well sorted. I've spent three weekends on Mirelle, my only experience of gaff (apart from a Drascombe), and I sail traditional boats non-gaff boats a fair bit. I've probably done about 10,000 sea miles mostly in the last eight years, and I would certainly not consider myself competent to charter her were she available for that purpose. (This is a comment on the complexity - the boat is very well "sorted" and there's no doubt about a good handover). Apart from anything else I am used to an engine with more than adequate horse power and a centre line prop.
I suppose when you buy your first gaffer with small engine and offset prop there's going to be a fair bit of trial and error, but it's not a problem when it's your own boat.
Little Knot
I may have posted this anecdote before, but in Nov'02 I went in to the Tidemill as crew on Mirelle. I actually went in aboard a launch strapped to the side, to supplement the low powed aux engine with the offset prop, as we were racing the tide due to a fog delay. I was cast off at the entrance, and Mirelle's skipper took her in single-handed, towing his tender. I moored and went to the pontoon to take warps. He reversed in to one of the tightest berths (one down from the Tidemill, 49' of boat incl. bowsprit), touching nothing, and then put out fenders once the warps were attached! OK, the wind wasn't blowing, but you can't do that on first acquaintance with a long keeler!
By and large modern sloops are all the same, and are so simple they can be sailed and moored by relative beginners, even stern-to, and are on flotilla holidays of course. Older boats, gaff rigged or not, tend to vary a lot more, and require familiarisation. E.G. you certainly must be able to competently operate the reefing system the first time you need to for real. To charter one I guess you would need quite a few sea miles under your belt in a similar style of boat, and a damn good handover. The boat also needs to be well sorted. I've spent three weekends on Mirelle, my only experience of gaff (apart from a Drascombe), and I sail traditional boats non-gaff boats a fair bit. I've probably done about 10,000 sea miles mostly in the last eight years, and I would certainly not consider myself competent to charter her were she available for that purpose. (This is a comment on the complexity - the boat is very well "sorted" and there's no doubt about a good handover). Apart from anything else I am used to an engine with more than adequate horse power and a centre line prop.
I suppose when you buy your first gaffer with small engine and offset prop there's going to be a fair bit of trial and error, but it's not a problem when it's your own boat.
Little Knot
Mirelle
N/A
Re: Do I sense a business opportunity?
I would lend Mirelle to Little Knot any time; he's one of the most throughly competent small boat seamen I know.
I loaned her to my sister and three friends for a week, in 1996. I still have the 20 page "manual" that I wrote for them; when they returned her they complained that I had not mentioned that the prop walk is reversed, so when you go along side port side to and kick her astern to stop, the stern leaps out about six feet sideways, away from the berth. I'd just got used to it. Just one of the things that you get used to aboard your own boat. The solution is to berth starboard side to, when she behaves "normally", which is what I try to do if singlehanded, or to get a stern line ashore before stopping and surge it round a quarter post, as one would if berthing under sail (this needs a crew, and a bit of planning...)
I have a depressing feeling that the answer to the question "how do you demonstrate that you are competent to bareboat charter an old gaffer?" might be "spend a day aboard sailing with the owner, first", which would not be much fun, as when you charter a boat (I don't know, I never have) I imagine that you want to be left in peace.
I would be quite cautious about chartering someone else's old boat.
I would lend Mirelle to Little Knot any time; he's one of the most throughly competent small boat seamen I know.
I loaned her to my sister and three friends for a week, in 1996. I still have the 20 page "manual" that I wrote for them; when they returned her they complained that I had not mentioned that the prop walk is reversed, so when you go along side port side to and kick her astern to stop, the stern leaps out about six feet sideways, away from the berth. I'd just got used to it. Just one of the things that you get used to aboard your own boat. The solution is to berth starboard side to, when she behaves "normally", which is what I try to do if singlehanded, or to get a stern line ashore before stopping and surge it round a quarter post, as one would if berthing under sail (this needs a crew, and a bit of planning...)
I have a depressing feeling that the answer to the question "how do you demonstrate that you are competent to bareboat charter an old gaffer?" might be "spend a day aboard sailing with the owner, first", which would not be much fun, as when you charter a boat (I don't know, I never have) I imagine that you want to be left in peace.
I would be quite cautious about chartering someone else's old boat.
fluffc
Member
Re: Do I sense a business opportunity?
So this poses a problem. If there are no gaffer's for charter, and the above thread demonstrates why, it is left to only those that can afford to own one to be able to use one.
Given that 'gaffer' skills are unique, and few sailing schools teach sailing in gaff yachts, is there are risk that the skills involved will die out in this generation?
So this poses a problem. If there are no gaffer's for charter, and the above thread demonstrates why, it is left to only those that can afford to own one to be able to use one.
Given that 'gaffer' skills are unique, and few sailing schools teach sailing in gaff yachts, is there are risk that the skills involved will die out in this generation?
yachtie8
New member
Re: Do I sense a business opportunity?
I agree that these skills could die out.
A few schools do teach them, I went on an excellent Day Skipper course run by Trinity Sailing in Brixham, which was done onboard Golden Vanity, a 52 foot gaff cutter, beautiful boat.
www.trinitysailing.co.uk
(no connection to me!)
I agree that these skills could die out.
A few schools do teach them, I went on an excellent Day Skipper course run by Trinity Sailing in Brixham, which was done onboard Golden Vanity, a 52 foot gaff cutter, beautiful boat.
www.trinitysailing.co.uk
(no connection to me!)
Victorious
New member
Re: Do I sense a business opportunity?
Somebody recently told me they had done a dazed kipper on Eve of St Mawes
Said it was a tad expensive... but well worth the extra.
Somebody recently told me they had done a dazed kipper on Eve of St Mawes
Said it was a tad expensive... but well worth the extra.
Santana379
Member
Re: Do I sense a business opportunity?
A highly competent (Yachtmaster Instructor) friend of mine does some skippering on Eve of St Mawes. I didn't mention her because I don't believe she's available for bareboat charter, which was fluffc's original question. I would love to do a trip to Scillies on her with him!
Fluffc's second questions re. the skills dying out - not a chance unless the boats do! I believe the Old Gaffers Association is flourishing on quite a wide geographical basis (Holland now has a section) and know for a fact it is very active on the East Coast, run and populated by an amazingly knowledgeable and skilled bunch of skippers, mates and crew. The fleet on the annual race Brightlingsea race is wonderful to behold.
I think that the skills will pass down the OGA just as they did with fishing families. There must be opportunities to crew for member boats, particularly on the longer events such as the East Coast Classics which are great fun. Also wonderful (I know because I've done it aboard the sloop rigged Nancy Blackett) is their passage race to Holland to join a feeder rally followed by the Dutch Classic Yacht Regatta. Have a look at the East Coast OGA website:
www.eastcoastclassics.co.uk
The issue identified here is you can't realistically just get aboard someone else's gaffer and set off, even if you are pretty competent in tupperware boats.
Since reading this thread I have been looking at /<ristal's recommendation for gaffer charter on the Broads, and I must say it's very tempting.
Little Knot
A highly competent (Yachtmaster Instructor) friend of mine does some skippering on Eve of St Mawes. I didn't mention her because I don't believe she's available for bareboat charter, which was fluffc's original question. I would love to do a trip to Scillies on her with him!
Fluffc's second questions re. the skills dying out - not a chance unless the boats do! I believe the Old Gaffers Association is flourishing on quite a wide geographical basis (Holland now has a section) and know for a fact it is very active on the East Coast, run and populated by an amazingly knowledgeable and skilled bunch of skippers, mates and crew. The fleet on the annual race Brightlingsea race is wonderful to behold.
I think that the skills will pass down the OGA just as they did with fishing families. There must be opportunities to crew for member boats, particularly on the longer events such as the East Coast Classics which are great fun. Also wonderful (I know because I've done it aboard the sloop rigged Nancy Blackett) is their passage race to Holland to join a feeder rally followed by the Dutch Classic Yacht Regatta. Have a look at the East Coast OGA website:
www.eastcoastclassics.co.uk
The issue identified here is you can't realistically just get aboard someone else's gaffer and set off, even if you are pretty competent in tupperware boats.
Since reading this thread I have been looking at /<ristal's recommendation for gaffer charter on the Broads, and I must say it's very tempting.
Little Knot
fluffc
Member
Re: Do I sense a business opportunity?
So should the OGA (or RYA) look at creating or endorsing a 'Gaffer' sailing certificate?
Reason I ask is I wonder about selling my gaffer, and then chartering with the money I'd save. But can't charter a gaffer, so need to keep boat.
So should the OGA (or RYA) look at creating or endorsing a 'Gaffer' sailing certificate?
Reason I ask is I wonder about selling my gaffer, and then chartering with the money I'd save. But can't charter a gaffer, so need to keep boat.
Mirelle
N/A
Take one cat; insert amongst pigeons...stand well back...
Er, not the RYA... Think we can all agree on that.
The OGA would never agree on what the syllabus should contain, let alone what the pass mark ought to be, or whether something had been done in the correct way... (I speak, of course, as an enthusiastic member!)
Indeed back in September I spent a weekend on my boat with a German friend (v good bloke, owns English built gaff cutter) who was genuinely shocked that I used tape sail ties instead of rope nettles!
So, yes, I reckon we'll all have to keep them...
Pity, as it could have been a Brilliant Solution!
Er, not the RYA... Think we can all agree on that.
The OGA would never agree on what the syllabus should contain, let alone what the pass mark ought to be, or whether something had been done in the correct way... (I speak, of course, as an enthusiastic member!)
Indeed back in September I spent a weekend on my boat with a German friend (v good bloke, owns English built gaff cutter) who was genuinely shocked that I used tape sail ties instead of rope nettles!
So, yes, I reckon we'll all have to keep them...
Pity, as it could have been a Brilliant Solution!
Amphitrite
New member
Re: Take one cat; insert amongst pigeons...stand well back...
Not in the UK, but in Germany there is a possibility: http://www.segeln-wie-damals.de/
Not in the UK, but in Germany there is a possibility: http://www.segeln-wie-damals.de/
