Gadfly II missing Years

J

jstarboat

Member
Joined
18 Jul 2008
Messages
31
Location
essex
www.j-starboatservices.co.uk
Hi Everyone,

I am trying to piece together the history of my Gaff Cutter Gadfly II, So far I have learnt where she was built and by which boatyard namely Anderson Regden & Perkins. The year of built appear to change by who you get the information off. One owner said it was built in 1937/38 and lanuched that year. Another past owner said it was started in 1939 and finished off in 1946. Also the person who had it originally commissioned is different as well. I do have information from two sources that the boat was owned by two people in the 1960's, but aparet from that the trail is stone cold apart from the these two people and the person I bought her off in 2007.

Could at one please help me fill in the missing years as I would like to complete my history of my boat and see where she as been over the past 70 odd years since she when down the slipway.

Kind Regards

Simon Papendick

Owner of Gadflly II
 
Simon

It's probably useful to establish we're talking about the same boat; you've said she's Gadfly II, yet the name in the Lloyds Registers I have is Gadfly (no II). The 1937 Gadfly mentioned, in say, the 1961 & 1969 Lloyds Registers, 26.5' OA, 22.5 WL, 6 tons TM, designed by Dr Harrison Butler - in both both Registers as being owned by Jack Merricks B.E.M. at home port of Rye. From the dimensions is this likely to be the same boat? There's something else noted - "RORC15-45' TCF. 5930 BSF867-2" haven't a clue what this is apart from the RORC bit might indicate a racing rating/or information might be held by the RORC.
But main thing, is it lekely to be the same boat?

If it is, sound really nice, how about posting some photo's?

regards

IanC
 
Hi IanC,

My Gadfly II dimensions are as follows 26'6" from end of the bowsprit to the top of the transom 21'6" on the waterline, as a beam of 7' and a draft of 4'. the name is cut into the transom on the starboard side. However, there is no sign of a Lioyds Register number cut into any of her deck beams that are in place and they look original.If you look at my multiply site you can take a look at the many photos of her restoration pover the past 3 years. I was told she had a look of a Harrison Bulter apart from the underwater profile was not quiet the same as one of his design. Another person said she looked like a Deben 3 tonner, yet another person thought it was a Hilliyard 2.5tonner. Yet another person said it was a Blackwater Sloop. Have looked at all these designs my Gadfly II fits none of them, However she as parts of her design that takes bits from all of them. So if you take the time to look at the following website you can try and help me with who indeed designed her and if it is the one in the Lloyds Register http://jstarboat.multiply.com/

Kind Regards

Simon Papendick
 
Simon

The dimensions in the Registers for the HB designed Anderson Rigden & Perkins 1937 Gadfly for draft is 4.7' and beam of 7.75', so not exactly as for your dimensions.

What marina is the photo's?

IanC
 
Simon

A bit more info; there's two different Gadfly's, and two different Gadfly III's mentioned in various Lloyds Registers. The book of the history ofAnderson Rigden & Perkins states Harold Doughty had Gadfly, Gadfly 2 and Gadfly III all built at ARP. Gadfly was built 1937, and Gadfly III in 1949, & as the book states Mr Doughty had two more boats built at ARP after the war it would your boat was built there between 45' - 49'. To me your boat looks as though it's got HB lines, but I can't find a HB design which fits the dimensions. Mr Doughty was a Whitstable builder who rebuilt part of the ARP premises after a post war fire. It seems he didn't register any of the Gadfly's he had built, but it was subsequent owners of 1 & 3 who registered them. It was common not to reister boats if you wanted to disguise where you were getting cash from; tax collectors would use Lloyd's Registers to see who had money and were worth investigating. It might be worth seeing if the there is a Doughty family of builders in Whitstable, or talking to Alan Staley who wrote the book (I believe), a woodenboat builder & works out of Chambers Wharf Faversham.
 
Hi IanC,

This is the information I was given to me by Alan Staley, It is not likely we will ever know which one of the GadflyII's it is as when I talked to Alan he can find no record of the boat in the books he as from the yard, Alan did state that the books that would solve the date and who was the owner were burnt when the yard was closed for the last time. The Boat I have as the wrong underwater profile to be a HB and the shape of the forefoot and the way the keel is shaped is all wrong to be one of his designs. As a wooden Boat builder of 34 years and have come across many different designs over the years. My Gadfly appears to have design features from many of the classic designers of the day in her design. One thing that set her apart from other boats of her age and design is that she as an offset forehatch to make setting and shipping the bowspirt easier. One other point is the her keel was made up in two halfs. The main part was 7" deep and then a further 3" piece was made up and bolted on top of the original iron keel.

Regards
 
Lloyds

With any dimensions in Lloyds. is important to bear in mind that in most cases the infromation was supplied to Lloyds by the owner, and therefore can be wildly inaccurate!

I have known boats to be 9" out on LOA, which, incidentally, is from the outermost surface of the stem, to the outermost surface of the transom or sternpost. It does not include the rudder of bowsprit.

The two-part ballast keel may be due to :
a) using an existing keel and adding to it at point of build
b)Transfering internal trimming ballast to the outside of the boat to make her stiffer
c) finding the boat was too tender, even with trimming ballast, so more was added as low as poss.
 
Last edited:
Hi Seanick,

I would with the first answer as the boat is still tender and the deadwood and the run on the stem would make it unlikely to be an add on later. The boat is still about 4" above its lines so it still needs about 3.4 to a ton of internal ballast to bring it down to its true lines. Because at the moment she is very tender and could well do with the extra weight to sort out the trim.

The original owner I think will have had internal ballast as without it she is a handful to keep sailing well.

Regards
 
Simon

Are you a member of the OGA? I just wonder whether they could help with previous ownership & location which in itself might produce some leads.

IanC
 
Hi Ian,

Thats is a bit of a bad joke in my household, I became a member a couple of years ago. But that was a bit of a waste of time. I paid them my subs for the year and asked if they could help me with my research into Gadfly II former owners. All I got for my trouble was no answer to the fact they had taken my money out of my bank account. I did not even get any yearbook or membership details or a membership number or anything at all. If this is the way they run the OGA then I am better off giving them a wide berth and not having anything to do with them. Especially if this is the way they treat new members wishing to join them.

Regards
 
Simon, I see what you mean, sparse replies to your requests for information on the OGA forum. Did the previous owner in Sunbury state where he bought it from?

IanC
 
Hi Nick,
The Gadfly II I have was over built for it's size as it was built with Grown frames every two ribs until you get to the mast and every three ribs from there on. Which unlike the Blackwater 3 ton sloop which are ribbed from stem to stern and have fore and aft bilge stringers, which Gadfly II does not have. Another thing came to light when I was restoring her that the rudder fittings had been changed in their position, one had been lowered to make room for the sterntube to have the inboard fitted. As a boatbuilder myself the size of the sternpost is not wide enough to this fitted without affecting the strength of the sternpost. The rig it sets would show that it was unlikely to have had an engine in originally. But if you know of any ballast going spare could you let me know.

Regards
 
Hi Ian,
I have just got some interesting news from the owner of Gadfly II in the early 1960's. In the letter he got back from Mr R K Anderson, it states that the Gadfly II in question was the Gadfly II that was commissioned by Mr Jack Merricks of Rye Sussex & that she was a 4 tonner by Harrison Bulter.

Regards
 
jstarboat said:
Hi Ian,

Thats is a bit of a bad joke in my household, I became a member a couple of years ago. But that was a bit of a waste of time. I paid them my subs for the year and asked if they could help me with my research into Gadfly II former owners. All I got for my trouble was no answer to the fact they had taken my money out of my bank account. I did not even get any yearbook or membership details or a membership number or anything at all. If this is the way they run the OGA then I am better off giving them a wide berth and not having anything to do with them. Especially if this is the way they treat new members wishing to join them.

Regards
Click to expand...

I must defend the OGA after your defamatory response. According to the records you joined the OGA in September 2009 not two years ago as you stated. The address and contact numbers you gave to the OGA are not your current address and contact number. If you did not tell the Association of your change of address then how would you Recieve the Year book and Newletters?

Please don't knock a very good National Association when you should have told them of your change of contact details.
 
Defencing my reponse

I must defend the OGA after your defamatory response. According to the records you joined the OGA in September 2009 not two years ago as you stated. The address and contact numbers you gave to the OGA are not your current address and contact number. If you did not tell the Association of your change of address then how would you Recieve the Year book and Newletters?

Please don't knock a very good National Association when you should have told them of your change of contact details.

The first thing you have to understand is this. I was at the previous address until April the following year, so they had trime to sent me a yearbook and newsletters, Also the could have acknowledged that they had got my subs by sending me a letter welcoming me to the association. If I had got these pieces of information I would have informed them of my change of address and none of this would have happened. I am aware that funds in such Associations are limited, but a simple letter saying that they got the subs and a letter welcoming me to the association would a least stopped this happening in the first place.

If there is a problem it is a lack of talking between the different parties involved, which is now going to be resolved shortly.

Regards
 
Seajet said:
Maybe the association got fed up with going to the effort of finding information for you and never hearing a please or thankyou ? I did...
Click to expand...
I never ask them to find any information in the first place, especially after September 09 when I did not get a reply from them with regard to getting my subscirption. A letter to acknowledge they had got my money and welcome me to the OGA would have stopped all this bad blood and ill feeling from ever happening in the first place. When I have asked them from time to time about information about the boat, they have not been very forecoming to say the least. Any information about the boat have come from other sources, but not about the boat or its owners during her time its was registered in the OGA, furthermore, When I have asked for information I have asked with a PLEASE and Have said THANK YOU when I have had a REPLY.

Regards
 
I have asked with a PLEASE and Have said THANK YOU when I have had a REPLY.

Not when I and a chum went to the effort of finding info' for you, though you did submit a new thread at my suggestion; strange as it may seem, the world does not revolve around you and your particular boat, and a little courtesy to people trying to assist would have been nice; note the past tense, as

seajet OUT!

Please don't bother replying as I'll only answer with facts...
 
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