Future of yachts

[newtothis]

Secondly, what do you think the charter companies do with the boats when they come to the end of their 5 - 7 year charter life?

Richard

Aren't most cats kept in the Caribbean, where hurricanes play a role in the natural attrition of catamaran numbers well before they reach the end of their charter life. I think the current high number of orders is simply to replace the charter fleet wiped out by last season's hurricanes.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

In most areas there is already a shortage of moorings, a cat takes on average double the mooring beam of a monohull, so where is all the additional mooring to come from if cats are the boats of the futur?

Shallow areas of marinas.

 

[capnsensible]

I most certainly do not.

Firstly, many, perhaps even most, of those multihulls are actually already owned by a private individual through a managed ownership scheme, as our was ..... owned by me!

Secondly, what do you think the charter companies do with the boats when they come to the end of their 5 - 7 year charter life? :encouragement:

As I said, the future is writ large.

Richard

When they reach the end of their charter life, like all the thousands of monohulls in the same part of their life, they will clutter up the backwaters of a few marinas rotting away whilst costing their owners twice as much.

Because you own one and look after it, please dont imagine for one moment that a multihull is the only answer. Ive been in marinas over an awful lot of the world and seen what happens. Sometimes whilst sailing multihulls......

For years Moorings have had lots of their multihull Caribbean fleets tied up rotting, no market. St Lucia is a case in point. Then along comes a Tropical Revolving Storm........

Its simply another good ideas bubble that will burst. Like the shared ownership con that dates back to Emsworth Sailing School and thence Sunsail.

So keep up the good work on your fine vessel and enjoy your sailing. You are one of the few.

Just to add, two lads that I trained a few years ago work all through the winter delivering Lagoon cats to Greece. i see them regularly and know quite a bit about the future ownership of the vessels. A lot are straight to Charter companies, no shares.

 

[RichardS]

When they reach the end of their charter life, like all the thousands of monohulls in the same part of their life, they will clutter up the backwaters of a few marinas rotting away whilst costing their owners twice as much.

Because you own one and look after it, please dont imagine for one moment that a multihull is the only answer. Ive been in marinas over an awful lot of the world and seen what happens. Sometimes whilst sailing multihulls......

For years Moorings have had lots of their multihull Caribbean fleets tied up rotting, no market. St Lucia is a case in point. Then along comes a Tropical Revolving Storm........

Its simply another good ideas bubble that will burst. Like the shared ownership con that dates back to Emsworth Sailing School and thence Sunsail.

So keep up the good work on your fine vessel and enjoy your sailing. You are one of the few.

There are so many factual and logical errors in your post that I can't be bothered to debate them .... apart from wondering where on Earth you got the idea that I imagined for one moment that a multihull is the only answer.

Richard

 

[capnsensible]

There are so many factual and logical errors in your post that I can't be bothered to debate them .... apart from wondering where on Earth you got the idea that I imagined for one moment that a multihull is the only answer.

Richard

Dont be ashamed to admit you dont understand what happens away from your small sailing area. The future may be 'writ large' in your incorrect assumptions, but those who travel around can see your mistakes.

:encouragement:

 

[Garold]

Charter cats work well for that business use but for the private owner/user after its charter life, I think that their requirements may often be different from the charter operator.

There aren’t many couples that would want to go off sailing in the average 8-10 year old 45 foot ex-charter cat with four bedrooms and four bathrooms.

The berthing costs alone would be probably double that of say a perfectly suitable 40-42 foot monohull.

Though cats have some great attributes which make them a popular option for charter companies, I think that ‘the future’ may be different when we get there because all these charter cats will not have the high residual values that were predicted. Unless a private buyer really wants the accommodation that a cat offers, it is a very costly choice.

And that’s without discussing the sailing ability of the average ex-charter cat.

Garold

As for foiling monohulls, it would need to be much simplified to be used more widely.

 

[RichardS]

Dont be ashamed to admit you dont understand what happens away from your small sailing area. The future may be 'writ large' in your incorrect assumptions, but those who travel around can see your mistakes.

:encouragement:

There are so many factual and logical errors in your (new) post that I can't be bothered to debate them ....

Richard

 

[capnsensible]

There are so many factual and logical errors in your (new) post that I can't be bothered to debate them ....

Richard

Ah, the 'Fingers in ears and go la la' Gambit.

Try talking to Yacht Brokers. Charter Operators. Anyone in the Yachting Businesses. :encouragement:

 

[Triassic]

Just to add, two lads that I trained a few years ago work all through the winter delivering Lagoon cats to Greece. i see them regularly and know quite a bit about the future ownership of the vessels. A lot are straight to Charter companies, no shares.

Been there, done that, and never again....! Charter cats seem to be built precisely for that market, overweight, under canvassed and far to much windage, they are the multihulls that give multihulls a bad name..... That are certainly roomy, comfortable and make great places to stay, but please don't buy one if you actually enjoy sailing. I know there are cruising cats that manage to find just the right balance between performance and practicality but they are still far more focused than your average monohull of similar length.

This thread is a bit like saying a BMW is the perfect car (insert Audi, Mercedes or any other premium saloon if you like). Yes they are good at what they are designed to do, but do you really need to run one if you're only commuting a couple of miles or popping to the shops a couple of times a week?

 

[capnsensible]

Too true. Have talked to people from a well known French builder about the quality of yacht build for private ownership and those built for the so called shared market. Very much an eye opener!

I once delivered an FP Lavezzi from the Caribbean to Croatia as the boat was changing charter bases. An adequate yacht but not really what they are designed for.

I do some part time Skipper work on an FP Athena locally on larger group 4 hour charters. Perfect!!

 

[Resolution]

There aren’t many couples that would want to go off sailing in the average 8-10 year old 45 foot ex-charter cat with four bedrooms and four bathrooms.
.

I would have agreed with you until this year. As I described in #7 above we met three privately owned, well sailed cats. In two out of the three the owners had children who seemed to enjoy sailing with them very much. Bags of space for all the toys, for teenagers to get away to their own lair, etc etc. Definitely a growing option for modern sailors.

 

[TQA]

Well in the Eastern Carib there are lots and lots of charter cats polluting my favourite anchorages. But it is interesting to note that Moorings/Sunsail have been 'acquiring ' shiny new monos for their fleets.

 

[Champagne Murphy]

A wild guess, but I suppose its all about the American charter market and what’s fashionable.

 

[capnsensible]

Well in the Eastern Carib there are lots and lots of charter cats polluting my favourite anchorages. But it is interesting to note that Moorings/Sunsail have been 'acquiring ' shiny new monos for their fleets.

It was in Marigot Bay a few years ago I saw a load of Moorings cats, over 30, all moored side by side under trees on the edge of the water. Covered in guano and bits of tree, totally neglected. Too many boats, not enough punters. A lot of them were Leopards that they got built on the cheap in Sef Efrika.

 

[Captn D]

The op referred to the lead theme in the latest issue of Yachting World, which suggests multihulls are the future for long distance blue water sailing and inludes a 30 page section of mini reviws of medium to large cats and one tri. With the possible exception of two or three of those reviewed, all showed yachts designed primarily for family comfort in Med or Caribbean calm sunny waters, with acres of space and glass, patio sryle doors between cockpit and saloon, exposed and often high steering positions etc. How such yachts would fare in a sudden ocean storm is deffinately questionable.

It would be ineresting to hear from any forum members who have experienced modern charter style cats in very rough seas.?

 

[capnsensible]

OK I mentioned earlier that I delivered one across the Atlantic and through the Med to Croatia. As you do.

Its often fairly blustery leaving the Carib around end April early May and for various reasons after leaving St Lucia I had to pit stop in Antigua briefly and St Maarten to get the autopilot fixed. As this was the day before easter (do it now or wait a week) we got lucky.

Anyway, once going it was pointless to try anything closer than 60 apparent in an ocean, so lots of north until around the latitude of Bermuda. Standard in any boat, really unless its a bit racey. Then the fun starts with 257 shades of grey for around two weeks. It was all offwind from then on though and surprisingly comfortable. Helped that I had two fairly experienced and robust crew, even though one of them, I think, must have vommitted three times his own bodyweight during the crossing....

So, rough seas. The last week run in to the Azores was all heavy airs. I lost a picture I had of the windspeed showing a constant 56 knots, which also makes the sea somewhat bumpy. I used a small bit of the furling headsail and the autopilot coped very well. You just needed to time the opening of the patio door just right.

Both the aft cabins developed leaks but tactical t towels diverted the streams well so mattresses damp rather than soaked.

If someone asks you at that time 'how often do these things roll over' then you get the once in a lifetime chance to say 'just the once'.

Generally, it was as uncomfortable as any boat in those conditions but I didnt feel unsafe. Perhaps not best to make a habit of it though.

In contrast, this April I was on a west east crossing on a Sunreef 74. Never more than a 6 and with two big donks and buckets of fuel, half sailed, half motored made it a doddle. We did have a lad though who also went for vom records....

Probably going back the other way on that one in November, if the wind kicks off I will make notes! :encouragement:

 

[Spyro]

Is it just cats that are sitting idle and not being chartered? I was in Palma last month and there were plenty sunsail monos all sitting lined up on the pontoon not moving for the whole time we were there.

 

[capnsensible]

Both I would say. It is a concern for some that the owner/managed boat by the big companies is a bit iffy. Personally Ive managed plenty of boats on behalf of others but I never make any exaggerated income claims. It clearly has worked for some people but I bet that feeling aint universal.

 

[capnsensible]

Now Prouts would hardly be called modern charter cats, but I was involved with a couple of friends in the late 80's/ early 90's who had a Quest 33 and a Snowgoose 37 that they chartered. I learnt a lot on those, eventually ending up as their charter skipper/babysitter. based in Pompey, that would quite often involve bumpy rides in all sorts of weather across in the general direction of Cherbourg. Again (and perhaps not knowing much better!) I never felt concerned in the near gale winds we sometimes encountered. Was noticable though a few years later when I was taking people over quite often on a Sadler 34 or a Sigma 36 that the passage times were always hours shorter.

The last Prout I sailed was with one of the chaps i mentioned delivering his built from hull and deck Prout 35 from Glasgow to Pompey. As this was November, it was very cold. Big seas down the coast of Ireland but once again a very seaworthy boat. Most notable event (.....) was stopping in Keyhaven on Trafalgar Night. Riotous assembly including a VHF link call to the President of the Wardroom in Faslane to toast the 'Immortal Memory'.

So designs have progressed somewhat, mostly for the better. Great for summer charter, but World Domination? I hardly think so.

 

[capnsensible]

Now Prouts would hardly be called modern charter cats, but I was involved with a couple of friends in the late 80's/ early 90's who had a Quest 33 and a Snowgoose 37 that they chartered. I learnt a lot on those, eventually ending up as their charter skipper/babysitter. based in Pompey, that would quite often involve bumpy rides in all sorts of weather across in the general direction of Cherbourg. Again (and perhaps not knowing much better!) I never felt concerned in the near gale winds we sometimes encountered. Was noticable though a few years later when I was taking people over quite often on a Sadler 34 or a Sigma 36 that the passage times were always hours shorter.

The last Prout I sailed was with one of the chaps i mentioned delivering his built from hull and deck Prout 35 from Glasgow to Pompey. As this was November, it was very cold. Big seas down the coast of Ireland but once again a very seaworthy boat. Most notable event (.....) was stopping in Keyhaven on Trafalgar Night. Riotous assembly including a VHF link call to the President of the Wardroom in Faslane to toast the 'Immortal Memory'.

So designs have progressed somewhat, mostly for the better. Great for summer charter, but World Domination? I hardly think so.