Furuno Navnet

[Mahe_42]

Ordered a new Princess 42 Flybridge at the Boat Show and have specified the inclusion of a Furuno Navnet 1933C Radar/Plotter with linked GD1900C on the flybridge. Looking at the Furuno options list I'm intersested in one or more of the following :-

BBWGPS Antenna
PG1000 Heading Sensor
ARP11 10 Target Auto Plotter
BBFF1 Network Sounder
FAX30 Weather Fax

Anyone have experience of Navnet kit and the usefulness of any of these options? The 42 will be used for channel cruising, acrooss to Channel Isles and French coast.


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[jfm]

All good stuff, congratulations on new toy. TCM has a similar Furuno set up on his boat. Some thoughts:

1. imho make sure you order the 1933 with C-MAP chart reader, not Navionics. It is available with either, the default might be Navionics, but C-MAP is miles better imho.

2. I suggest do not get the weatherfax and navtex, and instead install a separate ICS or Furuno paper printer Navtex unit, for same cost. Reason is, you want Navtex messages on paper because they have a shelf life of a few hours or the whole trip. And the paper will print a tickertape deck log every 15mins with time, Posn, heading, COG, SOG, etc. This is an important safety device in case the electronics die on you....

3. Order the optional video card in the 1933, connect to TV. This allows you to see chartplotter screen in cabins, (so you can check during night if your anchor has dragged) and watch TV/DVD at helm in a whole screen or quarter screen. Also allows you to rig up a camera eg in engine room or in saloon so you can keep eye on engines/kids while on flybridge say.

4. The antenna, hdg sensor, sounder all seem sensible choices. The heading sensor is for the autopilot, right? You didn't say what autopilot you are getting - you will need one for X-channel or even shorter trips

5. Radar is excellent choice imho. It is a 42inch open scanner, about 2deg beam width. This is much better than the enclosed scanners with 4deg beam width, as it will pick out individual targets much better. It is also a true colour radar, so it shows different strengths of the return signal in different colours. Top stuff. One prob on the princess 42 however is that the radar arch is too low and this fine equipment will not be able to be used while people are on the flybridge. If you can put up with slight ugliness, ask them to mount it on tallest possible pole like http://www.scanstrut.com/main pages/powertower.html . They make one specifically for the furuno 42inch scanner. We have a similar set up (on Fairline 42) and I greatly regret not having the radar scanner lifted 20inches or so.

I see princess's website for the 42 shows the radar on a strut. I think better to get a slightly longer strut than this, to get radar above driver's head. Get them to make the s/s goal post a bit higher, if necessary, to get the radar 10 inches higher than in this photo.

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[DavidJ]

Excellent reply from jfm but I'm interested in the recommendation for paper printer Navtex. Presumably this will clatter away at night which I would find disturbing. So my suggestion is for a display type and its not as if there are no other sources for the weather in the unlikely event of breakdown.

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[jfm]

Re: noise of navtex printers

No, the clatter is not loud. It buzzes a bit. It prints on thermal paper so not a golfball typewriter noise level. If it was in the saloon or helm station you would not hear it in bedroom. Anyway, you can turn it to silent mode where it will receive messages into memory but not print, then spew em out on paper in the morning.

The safety aspect of having a proper paper deck log every 15mins is very important and perhaps underestimated. With best will in world most people are not that diligent writing it in pencil into a book. If the electronics all fail you can then navigate by dead reckoning etc. A non-paper navtex will not have this feature. I admit you are unlikely to need it, only helps if total electrical failure, but like a liferaft, you do not need this feature until you need it.

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[stefan]

I have used this combination w. GPS and heading sensor this
season. Excellent performance. Only thing that annoys me is that the loaded route is deleted from the screen and has to be re-loaded everytime I go and check some other menu. Also that waypoints stay on the screen when you delete a route. Could be that I haven't read the 212 page manual enough.
When buying C-Maps note that Furuno use a different cartridge than the usual. It is bigger, more like the old ones.
I had a surprise when the charts I had bought didn't fit in the slot. Luckyly my dealer keep both cartridges in stock. Furuno C-Maps are also more rarely stocked by chart dealers, so buy well in advance.

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[mjf]

I too have this set up on my flybridge and I am delighted with it.

I had a small problem which was sorted under warranty without any fuss - simple 'we will change it' issue (damp under f/b screen). Then the f/b unit would not talk the main helm unit as the units 'names' had been changed during the switch. One phone call later and all was quickly self-adjusted.

I agree about the add ons esp the tv / monitor in E/R.

My stainless Cakestand upon which the open array is mounted is the same as the photo of the 42' and a guest did once bang his nut on the scanner - which was stopped at the time - when reaching for something located in the stern area of the f/b. So you height point is well made. That said Princess normally have a stainless frame (for GPS , TV , search lights, main mast light and anchor light) that mounts on top of the f/g arch and the radar must clearly rotate within this space. If you raise the scanner then this frame must be modified to accomodate the extra height.

I too have C-Map superwide and tuned both displays to more accuratly reflect BA Chart colours etc.

Now that I am more familiar with the gear I re-read the manual a couple of weeks ago and learnt a ton of stuff that passed me by when getting going a few months back.

I esp. like having a 3 way split screen with plotter / radar / highway - this also avoids the resetting that another resondant has commented about.


Enjoy it!

Michael

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[jfm]

Yes. Actually the normal reason to get the scanner as high as possible is to avoid microwaving people's brains, rather than clanking their heads, but that's a good point all the same!

Stefan is correct about CMap cartridge format. For Furuno it is CMap software but loaded onto a different shaped cartridge than usual. The furuno cartridges have approx 32 pin sockets along one edge, in a 2x16 array, and inside the unit there are the same number of tiny pins sticking out. People say you need to take great care changing the cartridges - last summer a friend of mine let someone switch the cartridge and they managed to misalign and bent the 32 pins inside the unit, at which point it is busted and needs to go to shop for repair

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[Mahe_42]

Thanks for the replies. I'm very aware of the fact that my lack of experience could lead to some bad purchasing decisions and your comments are most welcome.

jfm, I shall certainly be specifying the C-MAP NT+ map option for the reasons you have stated.

Is it really that important to get weather output on paper? Surely the other information systems are more important when you consider weather reports are available from numerous other sources?

The video input card seems like a great idea, especially when the kids are onboard. Does this give you sound as well as images? Can multiple cameras be connected and if so are they switched by the NavNet system? What type of camera do I need and where can I get them from?

What about video output say connected to one or more TV's? Is it possible to do this or is it just a single output?

According to the order form I have chosen a "Autohelm A6000+ Dual Station Autopilot" (Raymarine?) which may make the heading sensor redundant, although I believe the Furuno option is much faster and therefore less prone to losing it's fix during fast turns. Not sure if this would be a problem though.

Interesting comments regarding the Scanstrut PowerTower. I take it the PT2005 HD is the correct model for the 3.5' open array? Is this a straight post or angled backwards? Also, it's only 6" high. Is it going to make that much difference?

I think the pic you posted is of the 45. The 42 is so new I can only find a drawing of it.

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[jfm]

Hi mahe:
Answering your q's in turn starting 3rd para:

3. Not sure I see your point. Weather info can be paper or screen. But Navtex gives you lots of junk info then something you are interested in. Better imho to rip off the paper piece you are interested in then dump the rest. Else you are forever scrolling up/down screen to filter the useless info out. And the deck log safety feature has to be on paper

4. No, sound must be routed from your DVD player or TV to cockpit speakers, from the audio out. Simple enuf, but good to ask princess to run a few spare wire cores. Of course, this is only relevant for the flybridge because downstairs you can just watch TV!

There's only one camera in to the furuno card, so if you want multiple you need a separate switch box. Eg a 2-into-1 will allow 2 cameras to be connected, then one output connects to the furuno. Then you have a switch to select camera A or B. One of your inputs will be the DVD, so get a 4 into 1 and then you can have up to 3 cameras. The cameras and switches are standard 12v security cameras. All this stuff is buyable from Maplin and suchlike, or security firms, they're only £75 each or so for colour

5. There's only a single video out from furuno, but is splittable so can run to as many TVs as you like, then you just select the arrow-R channel on the TV, or tune the TV into channel 20 or something, just like when you connect a dvd to a TV at home

6. to be honest, I'm not sure what heading sensor does if not connected to autopilot. you dont need heading sensor to run GPS plotter and radar. Except possibly it helps to synch the pictures when you select plotter/radar overlay, not sure, does anyone know? ask Furuno. If it helps with this, get it, else when you overlay the radar onto chart the pictures constantly redraw as the boat's heading alters slightly, and it's a damn nuisance

7. Just get tallest you can. I'm pretty sure it is angled back. There is maybe a catalogue download on the site. Any height gain helps - look at the pic you posted, the radar is sort oflevel with driver's head, so 6inch or 10inch will help. Princess might not fit a very tall strut because radar arches are yoghurt pot construction and that radar scanner is heavy, so there might be a strength issue if stuck on a tall pole in big waves. Just get the best they will do.

8. Yes sorry I posted the 45

Anyway, when is delivery, and where are you mooring her etc etc??? Is this your first boat. Tell all please!

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[Mahe_42]

Thanks again for the info.

Delivery is March 2004 and I hope to get a berth in one of the South Devon Marinas, subject to waiting lists, greasing palms with silver etc. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

Indeed it is my first boat, or at least my first boat of anywhere near this size. I intend to get as much relevant training as possible between now and then.

Spending this weekend in Torquay to look at Marinas and going to Princess in Plymouth on Monday to finalise options and colours, hence the reason I started this thread.

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[Moose]

According to No1 Moose (he who reads all the catalogues with envy, cos' he would like a spinny round radar to make our boat more "Shipish!) Thinks that you would need the Heading Sensor for ARPA/MARPA, and the Radar/Chart overlay functions, so get it.
Can I have a go on your boat when you get it? Please/forums/images/icons/smile.gif I'll take my shoes off.

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L' Moose

 

[[2574]]

JFM,

The very fast heading sensor with the Furuno is designed to operate the ARPA technolohy on the 1933. Buried deep in the manual is the brief, which in outline, ARPA is a system for identifying potential collision targets via radar and then tracking this targets and continually assessing closst point of approach, time to collision etcetera. From memory the system will track up to twelve targets at any one time. The fast Furuno heading sensor is needed to keep up with the movements of the targets and the boat itself. Th Furuno heading sensor sends heading data 1000 times per minute whereas as conventional fluxgate compass is much much slower.

I have a 1933c, but I have not enabled the ARPA function (it's about £1k for the fast compass + the ARPA board from memory) and at the moment it seems a bit OTT. I might do it one winter when I want a new toy!

The overlay facility is much effected by heading sensor speed. My 1933 is connected directly to my Raymarine fluxgate via an nmea - Seatalk converter box. If I make a fast hard turn there is a delay noticeable as the chartplotter image catches up with the radar image (in north up mode) but how often does one make hard fast turns when one really needs a very good overlay image? (in poor viz). So I am very happy with my current setup. I only have one complaint with the 1933c and that is when in a lumpy sea the motion of the boat can move the rollerball and this causes the unit to go from "centre" mode to "cursor" mode. This is a real pain and I have to keep pressing the buttons to get back to a central screen image. I moaned at Furuno at the show and they said that if I returned the unit they would look at it - we'll see.

rob

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[mjf]

This is all excellent advice.

ARPA is Automatic Radar Plotting Aid.

The £1K extra for the card and high speed compass can easily be retrofitted.

Frankly there is enough to learn on a new boat (not to mention expense) without overdoing it. For anti-collision work I much prefer relative motion to assess the risk. The ARPA will however show other boats alteration to their course and speed in easy to see format. But...does rely on lots of data to accurately work.

I have not had any problems with the track ball moving - it seems quite tight to rotate mine actually. The remote units are excellent in heavy Wx as you cannot hit the wrong button in a moment of crisis.....

Michael

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[Mahe_42]

On the basis of this advice I think I'll go for the BBWGPS Antenna, BBFF1 Network Sounder, FAX30 Weather Fax and Video Interface Kit.

If required I can always add the PG1000 Heading Sensor and ARP11 10 Target Auto Plotter at a later date.

I note that the FAX30 can output to a laptop and printer allowing for hard copy although I'm not sure if the connection is via the FAX30 or the 1933C?

I'd be grateful for suggestions for suitable cameras for connection to the Video Interface Kit. Finally, is this kit all that's required for TV output as well as camera input?


<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Mahe_42 on 23/09/2003 20:29 (server time).</FONT></P>