Furling Line

[sailorman]

Could you please describe in more detail how is done

slide the outer back - cut the inner - slide outer forward & seal or whip. Jobs a goodun
You will be reefing first in less wind than later reefs so by then the drum will have bot outer & inner ( ie normal ) line on it to take the loads

 

[sailorman]

Doesn take long to make something better though

Better????? mine has been faultless these past 18 yrs, the line replaced once in that time, on a 49ft luff

 

[Dockhead]

Thanks to all for the replies; it appears that Dyneema is the way forward with either spliced to polyester for easy handling or gloves. I like the suggestion to remove the core of the Dyneema so to behave like webbing and also the Liros 9/6 suggestion.

I went from 12mm poly double braid to 10mm racing dyneema double braid for my Furlex 400S furlers, and I am very pleased indeed with the result. The smaller line is much lighter and more flexible and simply handles better in all respects, other than when trying to haul in the line with main force, which I don't do anyway.

Another, cheaper approach is to splice some single braid dyneema to the end of your existing poly double braid furling line. You can find the splicing technique for this with a bit of web rummaging. This ought to work a treat.


Edit: Oops, I see someone actually posted a link above. Anyway, this should be an excellent solution, and requires spending money only on a few metres of single braid, retaining all the handling ease of the existing furling line, and all of the strength.

 

[GHA]

Better????? mine has been faultless these past 18 yrs, the line replaced once in that time, on a 49ft luff

You think sk99 dyneema isn't a better material than polyester with no core?

Each to their own, youtube above if anyone is actually interested, should work for reefing lines as well.

Seems to ne a particularly grumpy forum today

 

[sailorman]

You think sk99 dyneema isn't a better material than polyester with no core?

Each to their own, youtube above if anyone is actually interested, should work for reefing lines as well.

Seems to ne a particularly grumpy forum today

Why use Dyneema whey braid on braid is plenty strong enough & nicer to handle & that in use now was from out club jumble ,so a very popular price too.
As for strength, Harken tell you NOT to use a winch to reel in, so no man will break what i use, not even Popeye

 

[GHA]

Why use Dyneema whey braid on braid is plenty strong enough & nicer to handle & that in use now was from out club jumble ,so a very popular price too.
As for strength, Harken tell you NOT to use a winch to reel in, so no man will break what i use, not even Popeye

Been said already, *MUCH* more chafe resistant, virtually zero stretch, much stronger so smaller line can be used and sits on the drum nicely. Chafe is a major factor, day 3 in a big blow you *really* don't want that line to go bang!

You do what you want, others will make a decision on their own boat/cruising style etc. Personally I went for dyneema having a lot of expedience with it & know just how tough a material it is. Others can do what they want, some info given above which might be helpful if anyone does decide to go that route.

Maybe of more interest to boats regularly doing longer ocean passages than coastal.

The good thing is it works great!

 

[lw395]

...
As for strength, Harken tell you NOT to use a winch to reel in, ....

That's not what it says in the manual for our Harken Furling/Reefing gear.

They say to be sure you are winching against the load of the sail, not friction or a foul-up.

Anyway, when you're sailing along part reefed, the tension in the reef line is some fraction of the sheet tension, so you are loading that little 8mm reef line with a Lewmar 52, reduced by the ratio of drum diameter to rolled sail diameter.

 

[sailorman]

That's not what it says in the manual for our Harken Furling/Reefing gear.

They say to be sure you are winching against the load of the sail, not friction or a foul-up.

Anyway, when you're sailing along part reefed, the tension in the reef line is some fraction of the sheet tension, so you are loading that little 8mm reef line with a Lewmar 52, reduced by the ratio of drum diameter to rolled sail diameter.

Both i & the OP are unlikley to be at sea 3 days in a blow.
Look what the OPs question, he has a modest yacht, lightly stressed
Harken say NOT to use a winch as damage to the drum bearings might occur, i will re-read manual nxt w/e

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

My boat had 10mm double-braid polyester line on an old Goiot furler.
Last year I had a major foul-up when the line got jammed with the drum refusing to turn in any direction when the Genoa was only half furled. In the end I had to go forward and finishing the furling manually.
Examining what had happened when we were back on the pontoon I concluded that the jamming was caused by slight 'furring' of the furling line cover. which induced friction between turns, and this had caused a sort of 'riding turn' on the drum.
Whether this was the cause or not I decided to fit a new 8mm line that I had and which was still shiny and slippery. It seems to have worked but I must admit that I have not used the system much this year because health reasons put an abrupt end to my sailing.
FWIW.

 

[thinwater]

Removing the core from standard DB is easy, smooth, and standard practice with riggers around here for cruising boats. Really. There are many variations on a theme, but anything that reduces the bulk and converts it to more of a webbing profile will make all the difference. I will never use round line on a furler again.

This post shows the stripped line. Also bearing replacement.

http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2009/09/hood-seafurl-800-bearing-replacement.html

 

[bitbaltic]

Some strange double think going on in this thread.
Use dyneema.
Take the core out.

If you don't need the strength or low stretch of dyneema, why not use something cheaper and take the core out?
My top tip is to make sure there's only the right amount of rope on the drum. When the sail is tightly furled, with just one turn of the sheets around it, the drum can be completely empty.
How strong does the line need to be?

Only skimmed the thread but this seems to be the only post that clearly makes the point that there is probably too much line in the drum. In fact all these people stripping the sheaths of their furling line seem not to remark that they tested it with only half a turn or so left on the line with the sail fully furled before concluding that the problem was the sheath volume not the fundamental amount of line.

Selden Furlex is a pretty reliable system. I set ours up to have half a turn of fairly chunky, soft line (specced by the rigger but prob 8mm polyester) when the sail is in. Never had a single issue with it.

 

[johnalison]

Only skimmed the thread but this seems to be the only post that clearly makes the point that there is probably too much line in the drum. In fact all these people stripping the sheaths of their furling line seem not to remark that they tested it with only half a turn or so left on the line with the sail fully furled before concluding that the problem was the sheath volume not the fundamental amount of line.

Selden Furlex is a pretty reliable system. I set ours up to have half a turn of fairly chunky, soft line (specced by the rigger but prob 8mm polyester) when the sail is in. Never had a single issue with it.

I also thought that there must be something else fundamentally wrong for a furling system not to work. Loose turns and too many are a basic error. When the sail is furled there should be no more than two or three left on the drum, a few turns being needed on occasion when the sail is more tightly furled. Also, too many people try to furl the jib when it is full of wind, or even upwind in a blow when using the lee of the main is so much easier. All this assuming that the furling gear is working properly and that the halyard tension has been eased.

 

[westhinder]

All this assuming that the furling gear is working properly and that the halyard tension has been eased.

And that backstay tension has been eased. I find that the furling system works much more smoothly and requires less muscle power if I ease off the backstay.

 

[johnalison]

And that backstay tension has been eased. I find that the furling system works much more smoothly and requires less muscle power if I ease off the backstay.

I haven't made any observations but I've always assumed that the sail would furl/unfurl more easily with more tension and a straighter foil.

 

[lw395]

I haven't made any observations but I've always assumed that the sail would furl/unfurl more easily with more tension and a straighter foil.

I'd agree. The backstay tensioning the forestay shouldn't be putting any load on the furling system.
Truning a straight foil should be easier than a curved one. I've known it go badly if the backstay is seriously eased downwind.
Maybe having the foil sag less than the sail is cut for is unhelpful though?
So maybe a 'firm' backstay is what you want, not 'cranked on for racing?
Our roller jib is not cut for mega backstay tension, so we don't do it, it's a cruising sail.

 

[westhinder]

I'd agree. The backstay tensioning the forestay shouldn't be putting any load on the furling system.
Truning a straight foil should be easier than a curved one. I've known it go badly if the backstay is seriously eased downwind.
Maybe having the foil sag less than the sail is cut for is unhelpful though?
So maybe a 'firm' backstay is what you want, not 'cranked on for racing?
Our roller jib is not cut for mega backstay tension, so we don't do it, it's a cruising sail.

I thought maybe the bearings were under more pressure with the backstay tensioned, but upon reflection you are right. The bearings were checked and in good order when the standing rigging was renewed early this season, so that can’t be the cause. And the genoa was not cut for a pronounced forestay sag, so that can’t be the cause either. I will have to check the halyard tension. I confess that I do not slacken it off after sailing. Do you guys always do that?

 

[lw395]

.... I will have to check the halyard tension. I confess that I do not slacken it off after sailing. Do you guys always do that?

TBH, no, unless we've put on extra tension to attempt to get better windward performance before reefing the genoa. Normally we don't use huge luff tension on the cruising genoa and just leave it. If we go sailing and don't want the whole genoa, we don't want the luff to have been left mega-slack as tightening the halyard on a partly rolled sail doesn't seem to work well. I do ease the tension if it's to be left a long time, e.g. over winter.
I'm certainly not going to ease the halyard before taking in a few rolls to sail in a strong breeze.

 

[johnalison]

We always ease the halyard after sailing, and almost always before furling. Even though I grease the points it makes quite a difference.

 

[tudorsailor]

The common solution around here, which works really well, is to remove the core from the front half of the line. It then flattens like webbing.

I have a 49ft yacht. The rigging list says to use 12mm braid on braid with core removed. This is for a big genoa whereas I have a smaller yankee since I am cutter rigged. I have braid on braid with the core still in. It never jams but it does take a lot of effort to furl by hand. Will taking the core out help?
How much core should I remove from my 25m of furling line? Or should I just downsize to 10mm?
TudorSailor

 

[sailorman]

I have a 49ft yacht. The rigging list says to use 12mm braid on braid with core removed. This is for a big genoa whereas I have a smaller yankee since I am cutter rigged. I have braid on braid with the core still in. It never jams but it does take a lot of effort to furl by hand. Will taking the core out help?
How much core should I remove from my 25m of furling line? Or should I just downsize to 10mm?
TudorSailor

Is the yacht new to you, 10mm is awfully thin to handle