Furlers vs hanks

[MisterBaxter]

The trouble is that a big masthead genoa loses shape and drive when you roll up a big chunk of it, but a big hanked genoa is also a huge pain to change and stow. A smaller fractional foresail would be loads easier to manage if hanked on, but also works better on a furler so less need to hank on.
I guess the truth is that big masthead genoas are just harder to handle than smaller foresails... Hence the trends in rig design since the seventies.
I had a gaffer with a hanked foresail with reef points in it. That worked surprisingly well.

 

[Stemar]

I had a gaffer with a hanked foresail with reef points in it. That worked surprisingly well.

A properly reefed sail should set almost as well as the full sail. However, almost is a bit of a weasel word. A reefed sail, be it a main, a genoa or any other sail, that's up to the job when you need the third reef in is likely to be too heavy for light airs so, for the total purists among us, a full set of hanked on foresails is the only way to go, A mountain of wet canvas trying to take over your berth in the forepeak is a small price to pay, as are the bruises when the sheet gives you a good slap round the ear.

For the rest of us, a reefing foresail still means a trip to the pointy end, which is also, especially when you need that reef right now, the wet bouncy end that's trying to throw you overboard, and especially for those slipping gently into our dotage, that probably isn't a good idea. Each to his or her own, but I'll stick to a furler.

 

[MisterBaxter]

@Stemar - yes, this was a particular case, a very heavy, stable gaffer with an extremely comfortable motion, bulwarks and a very solid guardrail, and a wide, uncluttered foredeck. The staysail just had one reef - first stage was to roll up the jib (Wykeham Martin gear) then reef the foresail, then drop the foresail and replace with a storm jib. But the reefed foresail was fine in a full F8...
Actually there were other options too - a big light -airs jib, a deck-sweeping tow-staysail and a little spitfire jib. But the boats general characteristics made all sail changes less urgent.

 

[geem]

The trouble is that a big masthead genoa loses shape and drive when you roll up a big chunk of it, but a big hanked genoa is also a huge pain to change and stow. A smaller fractional foresail would be loads easier to manage if hanked on, but also works better on a furler so less need to hank on.
I guess the truth is that big masthead genoas are just harder to handle than smaller foresails... Hence the trends in rig design since the seventies.
I had a gaffer with a hanked foresail with reef points in it. That worked surprisingly well.

I agree but there are other ways to skin a cat. We have a 130% vectran genoa with no foam luff, on a furler. You need sail shape to go to windward. We never reef that sail going to windward. We just furl it away and unfurl the working jib on a second furler mounted parallel to the genoa furler but 600mm back. This sail is optimised for winds of (apparent)20kts and over for windward work. It happens to be the wind speed at which we need to reduce genoa sail area. Down wind we can run the pair on twin spinnaker poles for trade wind sailing. We have check stays when going up wind with the jib. We love this set up. It's a combination of convenience and performance.
The problem with small headsails on modern boats going up wind in a choppy sea is limited drive. Hence the trend on modern boats to set a larger light wind headsail for such conditions. In reality, not so different to what we have with two permanent furlers on an older rig design

 

[johnalison]

The trouble is that a big masthead genoa loses shape and drive when you roll up a big chunk of it, but a big hanked genoa is also a huge pain to change and stow. A smaller fractional foresail would be loads easier to manage if hanked on, but also works better on a furler so less need to hank on.
I guess the truth is that big masthead genoas are just harder to handle than smaller foresails... Hence the trends in rig design since the seventies.
I had a gaffer with a hanked foresail with reef points in it. That worked surprisingly well.

In the days when I had a masthead genoa I would as often as not tie the hanked genoa to the rail when it was ‘resting’ if I didn’t mind it getting wet. I’m not sorry not to have to do that any more though. My current 110% jib has to do the job of covering all the winds we meet. The gain in stronger winds outweighs the lack of area in light winds, and being laminate it part-furls very well. Sailing and racing in company with sister-ships in light winds I found the loss of performance less than I expected, and not really significant in cruising terms. A reduced jib is becoming a popular solution, though it won’t be to everyone’s taste, and more suited to fractional rigs.

 

[Wansworth]

At one time I had a furling gear with elongated chain sewn into the luff,set well,furled and could be reefed and dropped and put in a bag…..never seen another one……circa 1976

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I agree but there are other ways to skin a cat. We have a 130% vectran genoa with no foam luff, on a furler. You need sail shape to go to windward. We never reef that sail going to windward. We just furl it away and unfurl the working jib on a second furler mounted parallel to the genoa furler but 600mm back. This sail is optimised for winds of (apparent)20kts and over for windward work. It happens to be the wind speed at which we need to reduce genoa sail area. Down wind we can run the pair on twin spinnaker poles for trade wind sailing. We have check stays when going up wind with the jib. We love this set up. It's a combination of convenience and performance.
The problem with small headsails on modern boats going up wind in a choppy sea is limited drive. Hence the trend on modern boats to set a larger light wind headsail for such conditions. In reality, not so different to what we have with two permanent furlers on an older rig design

Our code sail can’t get us closer than about 60 deg true. If it’s literally sailing by the smoke of your fag, it’s quicker to do that. Our full jib, 110% is good to 25kn apparent, 16 true, a bit more in the gusts if you’re wide awake and sheets in hands. I guess our true wind figures aren’t really that far apart, but that did surprise me initially.

 

[geem]

Our code sail can’t get us closer than about 60 deg true. If it’s literally sailing by the smoke of your fag, it’s quicker to do that. Our full jib, 110% is good to 25kn apparent, 16 true, a bit more in the gusts if you’re wide awake and sheets in hands. I guess our true wind figures aren’t really that far apart, but that did surprise me initially.

We can sail to 30° apparent with the genoa in light conditions and make reasonable performance but very dependent on sea state. When the wind is up at 25kts apparent, we are in the sweet spot of our jib. Interestly, as we heel more, we come up on the wind a little. We also have the power to punch through seas. In flat water we can get to 30° apparent and make fast progress, for us. Sea state is everything and hugely impacts on progress. Having the option to easily set one of two headsails without leaving the cockpit is a great option for us, especially when hard on the wind.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We can sail to 30° apparent with the genoa in light conditions and make reasonable performance but very dependent on sea state. When the wind is up at 25kts apparent, we are in the sweet spot of our jib. Interestly, as we heel more, we come up on the wind a little. We also have the power to punch through seas. In flat water we can get to 30° apparent and make fast progress, for us. Sea state is everything and hugely impacts on progress. Having the option to easily set one of two headsails without leaving the cockpit is a great option for us, especially when hard on the wind.

Sea state for us is an inconvenience for the crew, more than anything. You slow down and don’t point as high because it's uncomfortable. Our apparent wind angles are a tad finer than yours, true angle probably same or a tad less. We retain shape when rolled to the first of our vertical battens, but it’s not so good after that. But it’s a category B boat, sustained wind over 30kn is not in our remit.

 

[geem]

Sea state for us is an inconvenience for the crew, more than anything. You slow down and don’t point as high because it's uncomfortable. Our apparent wind angles are a tad finer than yours, true angle probably same or a tad less. We retain shape when rolled to the first of our vertical battens, but it’s not so good after that. But it’s a category B boat, sustained wind over 30kn is not in our remit.

Very different boats used in very different ways. Our recent trip back from the Caribbean saw winds of 30kts and more on every single leg. Antigua to Azores, Azores to Ireland, Ireland to Holyhead, Holyhead to Fleetwood, and Fleetwood to Glasson. By comparison, we have a heavy, comfortable boat that's made for these conditions. Big sail area helps us in the light stuff but upwind we are not fast if it's light and bumpy. The mizzen mast is just drag but offset by vectran sails and a folding prop so all things considered, we do all right. She never does high speed but she has long legs. Over 6 kts average across the pond in generally light conditions with just the 2 of us onboard.

 

[prestomg27]

I am afraid I am one of those lunatics who actually prefer hanked-on sails although I realize they aren't for everyone. I have set out my 19 reasons here: I actually prefer hanked-on headsails, am I completely bonkers? – Sumara of Weymouth

Me too. I have had roller furling on my last couple of boats but am moving back to hank on sails for the boat I am currently refitting. I think sail shape is better and also less to go wrong. I've had a furling line part in the drum in a force 5 on my own and it was entertaining.

 

[dunedin]

Me too. I have had roller furling on my last couple of boats but am moving back to hank on sails for the boat I am currently refitting. I think sail shape is better and also less to go wrong. I've had a furling line part in the drum in a force 5 on my own and it was entertaining.

A properly sized / specification rope should not part unless a severe chafe issue and lack of inspection / maintenance.
Seems a poor reason to go to the hassle and risks of on deck sail changing.
And as for sail shape, never noticed any cruising boats with hank on sails going better upwind (racers with black sails, typically in a foil rather than hanks, excepted)

 

[prestomg27]

It must be a female thing. The video is pretty irritating for a simple question on why she prefers to sail solo without a roller furler.

what a sexist comment. I didn't think the video was irritating at all. She is giving a lengthy explanation as lots of people have questioned her decision.

What is 'the female thing'? That she has calmly sailed halfway round the World on her own with no panic, in good spirits and in a 28 foot boat? Pretty inspirational in my book.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

what a sexist comment. I didn't think the video was irritating at all. She is giving a lengthy explanation as lots of people have questioned her decision.

What is 'the female thing'? That she has calmly sailed halfway round the World on her own with no panic, in good spirits and in a 28 foot boat? Pretty inspirational in my book.

Personally, I find this video irritating because it is a long winded explanation. I find a lot of Jacqueline Evers videos irksome and regularly fast forward through them. The female quip was in relation to the OP’s statement that Lin Pardy prefers hank on head sails. I made the comment because it coincided with me watching that particular video a couple of days before the OP.

Her sailing achievements are very laudable.

 

[Tranona]

Her preference was very specific to her circumstances and not a case against furlers in general. It would indeed be an expensive business to change to a furler and new sail when she has 2 perfectly good sails that work well for her. Pretty sure that if she started with a furler she would not be talking about removing it.

 

[DJE]

We have masthead rig with furling genoa but also a removable inner forestay for hanked-on No.3, No.4 and storm jib.

Yes it was a pain rigging the stay and No.3 in the pre-dawn dark before leaving Neiuwpoort this summer. But a few hours later in Dover Straight with a F6 blowing against a spring tide I was glad of it.

An innovation this year is a downhaul rope from the cockpit to the bottom of the inner stay clipped to the head of the jib before hoisting. It allows me to pull the jib down onto the deck without going forward. That and a tight sheet keeps the sail on deck until I can get forward and put a tie on it.

 

[Lightwave395]

Hanked when I raced solo with 3 different size headsails, furling since I've been a cruiser with 1 headsail plus a removable inner forestay for a hanked No4.
I've found furling 90% trouble free and hanked headsail changes 98% trouble free in both scenarios
As with most things, each to their own

 

[justanothersailboat]

Every time these discussions come up, I end up envying people who have cutters or removable inner forestays. I will probably add a removable inner forestay eventually but am a bit uncertain about how strong the top-end attachment point needs to be and how it can be constructed - some masts you can buy purposemade parts but mine is too old.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Every time these discussions come up, I end up envying people who have cutters or removable inner forestays. I will probably add a removable inner forestay eventually but am a bit uncertain about how strong the top-end attachment point needs to be and how it can be constructed - some masts you can buy purposemade parts but mine is too old.

Don't forget supporting the mast, you will probably require to fit and use running backstays.

 

[justanothersailboat]

Seems to be a property of how close the attachment point is to the top, no? Have seen arrangements both with and without them. I am familiar with running backstays but not that keen on them for solo use... crewed yes... alone might not be for me.