Fuel tank leak

Bouba said:
I have a compressor and could pressure test it myself....but I am reluctant to do it while I still have 200 plus liters in the take..it could make quite a mess
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dont use a compressor - you only need a couple of psi - a car tyre foot pump should be fine.

If you're only leaking half a litre a day under normal pressure, you're not going to cause a mess unless you blow the tank apart ( hence keeping the pressure v low)

a cheap low pressure guage will detect any pressure drop - something like this

0..0.6 Bar (0..9 psi) Pressure Gauge Below Plastic/Brass 63 mm Class 2.5 | Tameson.co.uk
 
Bouba said:
I need local people because it’s an entire operation that requires hiring lifting equipment, operators and at least one mechanic, a new tank has to be sourced or the old one repaired, there’s a huge amount of cleaning (possibly my job) and then reversing the process.....someone has to be good at French and can organize
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You don't need people to do all that. For now you just need someone to disconnect the fuel lines for you.

Only once you have diagnosed whether, where and why fuel is escaping should you even begin to be thinking about what the solution might be, and how you achieve that.

You have become fixated on the worst case scenario, without establishing what scenario you are actually facing.

Good luck with it, though.
 
NBs said:
Hi Bouba, I miss reading your problem. I hope you have a simpler reason, here is a link to the discussion where the tank problem in the swift trawler tank, the reason was poor welding. find Paul Wynn 19.Jun2019.

Beneteau Swift Trawler Owners? | Page 5 - General Trawler Discussion | YachtForums: We Know Big Boats!

NBs
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From your link
'The leak was actually on the bottom seam weld of the tank on the bottom edge facing the bow so very difficult to get at.
The boat is back in the water now. Overall the cost was about £8k. The job involved removing the sofa and downstairs helm seat and cutting a hole in the floor then taking out all water tanks and pumps before removing and replacing both fuel tanks. The cause was lack of weld material at a small spot on the seam so it was covered under my latent defect clause. Nevertheless I took the opportunity to upgrade to SS tanks.'
 
doesn't look particularly promising :-(
one more reason to get on it fast else we're only going to be looking at real Bouba pics walking the SOF beaches throughout the summer...
on the plus side you don't need to remove the engine!
 
Croftie said:
You do NOT need a compresser, too powerful, a bike pump would do! Even a couple of PSI would increase the diesel loss (into the bilge) and therefor a tank problem or not
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I would not choose a bike pump as it is a low volume/high pressure pump. More moderate than high pressure but each stroke will be lucky to deliver 50mls of air. Bouba has an 800 litre tank that's 25% full, leaving 600 litres of space. Pumping in 30 litres is going to take about 600 strokes or 300 if it's a double action pump.

Something like a pump for an inflatable dinghy would seem to be more suitable. Low pressure and high volume.
 
Regarding insurance, it depends entirely on the policy. If I look at my own policy the position as I understand it would be as follows (my own highlighting)...

Latent Defect

Definition

Latent Defect - a hidden flaw, weakness or imperfection in the design, manufacture or build of the Vessel that is not apparent by routine inspection and is not a result of Gradual Deterioration or a lack of maintenance.

What is covered

1 Whilst ashore or afloat, being lifted, hauled out or launched, in transit by road, rail, air or car ferry the Vessel is covered for losses arising from:
1.1 all risks of accidental damage;
1.2 theft;
1.3 fire and/or explosion;
1.4 acts of piracy;
1.5 acts of vandalism;
1.6 deliberate damage (not caused by You);
1.7 Latent Defect, excluding the cost or expense of repairing or replacing the defective part; and
1.8 electrolysis caused by a sudden and identifiable cause.

If the cause of the tank failure is an accident (for example if a self tapper fell between the boat and the tank and went on to puncture it) or it was damaged in rough seas then the repair of replacement of the tank would be covered.

If we assume that the case of the leak is a poor weld, then IMO it would be classed as a Latent Defect. However, the policy would not cover the expense of repairing or replacing the defective part (which I assume would the tank).

Machinery

Definition

Machinery - includes but is not limited to main or auxiliary engines, outboard motors not exceeding 10hp unless specified in the Certificate of Insurance, gearboxes, starter motors, alternators, electrical and mechanical equipment, cables and fittings, hydraulic equipment, piping and fittings, boilers, shafts, exhaust systems, generators, air conditioning equipment, tanks, pumps and water makers.

What is covered

2 Whilst ashore or afloat, being lifted, hauled out or launched, in transit by road, rail, air or car ferry the Vessel is also covered for:

2.4 loss of or damage to the Vessel’s Machinery caused by the failure of any component, provided that:
(a) the Machinery is less than 10 years old from the date of first manufacture;
(b) is professionally installed;
(c) the Maximum Designed Speed of the Vessel is under 35 knots; and
(d) You can provide written evidence that all the manufacturer’s maintenance recommendations have been carried out.

As Bouba's boat is under 10 years old then he would appear to be covered for the repair / replacement of the tank.

-------------

If course, Bouba's position depends entirely on what his policy says.
 
petem said:
Regarding insurance, it depends entirely on the policy. If I look at my own policy the position as I understand it would be as follows (my own highlighting)...

Latent Defect

Definition

Latent Defect - a hidden flaw, weakness or imperfection in the design, manufacture or build of the Vessel that is not apparent by routine inspection and is not a result of Gradual Deterioration or a lack of maintenance.

What is covered

1 Whilst ashore or afloat, being lifted, hauled out or launched, in transit by road, rail, air or car ferry the Vessel is covered for losses arising from:
1.1 all risks of accidental damage;
1.2 theft;
1.3 fire and/or explosion;
1.4 acts of piracy;
1.5 acts of vandalism;
1.6 deliberate damage (not caused by You);
1.7 Latent Defect, excluding the cost or expense of repairing or replacing the defective part; and
1.8 electrolysis caused by a sudden and identifiable cause.

If the cause of the tank failure is an accident (for example if a self tapper fell between the boat and the tank and went on to puncture it) or it was damaged in rough seas then the repair of replacement of the tank would be covered.

If we assume that the case of the leak is a poor weld, then IMO it would be classed as a Latent Defect. However, the policy would not cover the expense of repairing or replacing the defective part (which I assume would the tank).

Machinery

Definition

Machinery - includes but is not limited to main or auxiliary engines, outboard motors not exceeding 10hp unless specified in the Certificate of Insurance, gearboxes, starter motors, alternators, electrical and mechanical equipment, cables and fittings, hydraulic equipment, piping and fittings, boilers, shafts, exhaust systems, generators, air conditioning equipment, tanks, pumps and water makers.

What is covered

2 Whilst ashore or afloat, being lifted, hauled out or launched, in transit by road, rail, air or car ferry the Vessel is also covered for:

2.4 loss of or damage to the Vessel’s Machinery caused by the failure of any component, provided that:
(a) the Machinery is less than 10 years old from the date of first manufacture;
(b) is professionally installed;
(c) the Maximum Designed Speed of the Vessel is under 35 knots; and
(d) You can provide written evidence that all the manufacturer’s maintenance recommendations have been carried out.

As Bouba's boat is under 10 years old then he would appear to be covered for the repair / replacement of the tank.

-------------

If course, Bouba's position depends entirely on what his policy says.
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I’m way out of my depth here, but my reading of that is more that the machinery in the boat is covered if something else fails that subsequently causes damage.

So for instance if the fuel tank leaks due to wear and tear, they won’t cover the cost of replacing the fuel tank, but they would contribute towards the cleanup costs / replacing stuff that got drowned in diesel.

That’s how most insurance works, but as I say, not my specialist subject ?

Edit: I dare say that there would also be an expectation that you deal with a known fault as soon as possible and keep the boat in a seaworthy condition.
If you had a known fuel tank leak that had been going on for months, and then you had an electrical fault that set the leaked diesel on fire, I expect they would tell you to sling your metaphorical hook.
 
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Aren’t you suppose to notify them in the first instance?
The tank will have to be seen by a assessor to determine if it’s not wear n tear thinking electrolysis of weld .They have a life .
You can’t expect your ins to replace lifed ( within a range of yrs ) parts .
Some parts will go early say a whimpy windlass with enough chain to reach the Mariana Trench , others will outlast the boat .

Jake W is right they may cover the mess / consequences of the failing part but not the part itself.

Anyhow why refit alike for like ?
Why use another cheapo Beny tank ?
Use this as an opportunity to instal a better tank set up as I have outlined .Move on and enjoy next season .

A potential side issue is a expert surveyor wearing his jobsworth hat might slag off the Beny instal and tank .
The ins co do not do “ betterment “

Another potential issue which may impact is at sale Bouba might have to tick an honestly box “ has the boat ever been involved in a insurance claim “

Diesel swilling about for months on end along with the potential buyers knowledge of organic chemistry and Beny build might put them off .
A smashed glass replacement not likely, but this raises hull structural integrity issues the plastic basically weakened + fuel seeping about the core .We know it’s a cored boat below the WL .

Tick tock tick tock …..more pics of dogs on the beach i fear coming up as the more peeps are dragged in the less days boating Bouba will end up with .
 
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Portofino said:
Aren’t you suppose to notify them in the first instance?
The tank will have to be seen by a assessor to determine if it’s not wear n tear thinking electrolysis of weld .They have a life .
You can’t expect your ins to replace lifed ( within a range of yrs ) parts .
Some parts will go early say a whimpy windlass with enough chain to reach the Mariana Trench , others will outlast the boat .

Jake W is right they may cover the mess / consequences of the failing part but not the part itself.

Anyhow why refit alike for like ?
Why use another cheapo Beny tank ?
Use this as an opportunity to instal a better tank set up as I have outlined .Move on and enjoy next season .

A potential side issue is a expert surveyor wearing his jobsworth hat might slag off the Beny instal and tank .
The ins co do not do “ betterment “

Another potential issue which may impact is at sale Bouba might have to tick an honestly box “ has the boat ever been involved in a insurance claim “

Diesel swilling about for months on end along with the potential buyers knowledge of organic chemistry and Beny build might put them off .
A smashed glass replacement not likely, but this raises hull structural integrity issues the plastic basically weakened + fuel seeping about the core .We know it’s a cored boat below the WL .

Tick tock tick tock …..more pics of dogs on the beach i fear coming up as the more peeps are dragged in the less days boating Bouba will end up with .
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So what's the answer in your opinion Porto?
 
stelican said:
So what's the answer in your opinion Porto?
Click to expand...
My post #375

here ….

Won‘t Beny just be parts throwers and replace like for like warts n all ?
Charging a lot for it .

It needs mounting isolated from flexing , independent of hull movement.
Sight glassed .
Suitably cocked .
A sump .
A drain at the foot of said sump .
Electrically bonded .
Access for inspection as applicable .

Move it to a yard as I mentioned in the St Trop bay ….indoors over winter it with them .There are loads of yards .Loadsa hangers inland all over the place in the river delta …..it’s a boaty paradise with all the on shore back up you could ever wish for .If you want your bar stools upholstering in elephant foreskin some one around St Trop will do it …….oh hang on that’s already been done 50 y ago :)

I don’ t think I would have done zilch by now .
Even draining the stuff off because as I said it’s cored and god knows with Beny what plastics they reckon to use .
Modern additives like low sulphur react with some not all plastics .

Bouba says he mops up a litre but that’s might be [ insert your % ] of what’s escaping …..the rest quietly soaking away / reacting with the boat plastics .

We are not talking a 1969 marine projects ( now Prinny ) 29 ftr with a 2 inch solid bottom of the finest hand layered and mixed glass fibre and 10 gallons of old fashioned un molested and Smokey red DERV swilling about in the bilges .With that I would not be worried .
If it’s a balsa or some other core even a synthetic it’s soaking up diesel.

First as I think I first mentioned while in the water ( was it August ?it turned out Bouba noticed the leak ) pulled the pipes to work out engine / tank .
This has still not been done btw .
Then fearing tank arranged wintering it / fixing it at a yard with guys who do tanks as there day job .
Mover over to an upgraded set up outlined .

Never bothered contacting Beny .Maybe started a conversation with my ins co ….but not held my breath .As they will play the wear n tear SS weld known life card .It it’s a weld ? Still don’t know as the tank is sat pissing fuel as you read this !
 
Sorry but why do some always try to get the insurance companies to pay the bills?….maybe it’s why some have pulled out the market and quotes are rising.

Surely it’s not an insurance companies problem if a boat manufacturer uses a non marine grade tank ?……if it is then insurance premiums for Beny boats will attract a hefty premium as they are not fit for purpose and fail in less than ten years.
(let’s hope it isn’t the tank).
 
Sorry but why do some always try to get the insurance companies to pay the bills?…
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Why wouldn't you? if it was covered and the excess is less than the cost, that's exactly what insurance is for.

Surely it’s not an insurance companies problem if a boat manufacturer uses a non marine grade tank ?
Click to expand...

It is if the policy covers it.
 
jakew009 said:
I’m way out of my depth here, but my reading of that is more that the machinery in the boat is covered if something else fails that subsequently causes damage.

So for instance if the fuel tank leaks due to wear and tear, they won’t cover the cost of replacing the fuel tank, but they would contribute towards the cleanup costs / replacing stuff that got drowned in diesel.

That’s how most insurance works, but as I say, not my specialist subject ?

Edit: I dare say that there would also be an expectation that you deal with a known fault as soon as possible and keep the boat in a seaworthy condition.
If you had a known fuel tank leak that had been going on for months, and then you had an electrical fault that set the leaked diesel on fire, I expect they would tell you to sling your metaphorical hook.
Click to expand...
I have it on good authority (from someone who is used to fighting insurers) that I'm on the right tracks with my post.
 
Portofino said:
Aren’t you suppose to notify them in the first instance?
The tank will have to be seen by a assessor to determine if it’s not wear n tear thinking electrolysis of weld .They have a life .
You can’t expect your ins to replace lifed ( within a range of yrs ) parts .
Some parts will go early say a whimpy windlass with enough chain to reach the Mariana Trench , others will outlast the boat .

Jake W is right they may cover the mess / consequences of the failing part but not the part itself.

Anyhow why refit alike for like ?
Why use another cheapo Beny tank ?
Use this as an opportunity to instal a better tank set up as I have outlined .Move on and enjoy next season .

A potential side issue is a expert surveyor wearing his jobsworth hat might slag off the Beny instal and tank .
The ins co do not do “ betterment “

Another potential issue which may impact is at sale Bouba might have to tick an honestly box “ has the boat ever been involved in a insurance claim “

Diesel swilling about for months on end along with the potential buyers knowledge of organic chemistry and Beny build might put them off .
A smashed glass replacement not likely, but this raises hull structural integrity issues the plastic basically weakened + fuel seeping about the core .We know it’s a cored boat below the WL .

Tick tock tick tock …..more pics of dogs on the beach i fear coming up as the more peeps are dragged in the less days boating Bouba will end up with .
Click to expand...
Other people who have contributed to this thread have had similar issues covered by their insurance. It's very possible Bouba might be able to make a successful claim too.

Taking a look at his insurance policy would be a good start.
 
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Flynnbarr said:
Sorry but why do some always try to get the insurance companies to pay the bills?….maybe it’s why some have pulled out the market and quotes are rising.

Surely it’s not an insurance companies problem if a boat manufacturer uses a non marine grade tank ?……if it is then insurance premiums for Beny boats will attract a hefty premium as they are not fit for purpose and fail in less than ten years.
(let’s hope it isn’t the tank).
Click to expand...
If it's a bad weld then it's likely to be a costly repair (€5,000 to €10,000 would be my guess). If Bouba has paid for a decent policy that covers such eventualities then I don't see why he shouldn't claim for it to be repaired.

After all, Insurance companies aren't charities.
 
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