ribrage
Well-Known Member
Trouble is any "additional " lights are classed as deck lights and perfectly legit, as long as the required lights are shown in some degree , everything else is open to interpretation
Frustrated With The Nav Lights Showed
- Thread starter multihullsailor6
- Start date
RupertW
Well-Known Member
I'd like to see the link to that case.
For me the key reason for an anchor light is that my boat doesn't get hit and that I don't hit other boats so in order of usefulness I would rank:
1) Bright 12v white fixed lights at head height, near bow and near stern - I don't care which is the official anchor and which is just a deck light
2) Garden lights in similar position - my option every time until I go for option 1 - as long as they can be seen a couple of hundred metres away then I can be seen by anything likely to hit me
3) Flashing coloured lights in similar position - dangerous, confusing but can be seen
4) Pretty bright light at top of mast. Ships 2 miles away can see the yachty anchorage. Otherwise utterly useless. Anybody nosing in won't have the slightest clue whether it's a little boat nearby or a big boat further way. I never light it.
nortada
Well-Known Member
Agree all above but power constraints can militate against the 12v incandescent solution.
How bright does an anchor light have to be?
Whereas nav lights have to be visible over a given range (to give enough time to asses & then take any necessary avoiding action by 2 moving targets) careful reading of the regs does not stipulate similar criteria for an anchor light.
Indeed the visual range of the traditional flickering oil lamp forward of the mast is almost impossible to assess; especially when the glass smeeches up & I have never been a great fan of the attendant fire risk!
So I like 'garden lights'.
For reliability, I use those up market ones with 2 independent diodes powered by a rechargeable AA battery.
To be sure of light all night, I replace the 600mAH batteries usually supplied with a 1600mAH ones. Following a number of controlled trials these lamps will provide between 30 & 60 hours continuous light with no access to day or artificial light so OK unless you are in very high latitudes.
To ensure all round visibility I mount one (or 2 close together) on the pulpit rail & on the pushpit rail.
Again from experiment, in a dark anchorage, these lamps are visible out to at least half a mile, about the same distance I got from my traditional oil lamp.
Oh yes, I have a mast head Lobo diode light but at 14 meters above the boat it regularly causes confusion as to the boat's exact position.
For the last 10 years or so, used this approach all over Europe & beyond & have yet to have any run-ins with the authorities.
Was actually commended by the Portuguese Maritime Police in the Ria de Formosa for I quote, "A sensible approach to avoiding collisions at night" & those guys can be very hot on the rules.
Indeed, other seasoned salts have adopted a similar approach & thanks to a GPS anchor watch enjoy a anxious-free good nights sleep.
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GrahamM376
Well-Known Member
Can't help with a link but it was in Spain maybe 3 years ago.
noelex
Well-Known Member
These are fine as supplement, but please don't use them a the only anchor light.
They are not bright enough.
I come into a lot of anchorages at night and it is very easy to miss them if conditions are not ideal. When people asses their anchor lights they often look from shore, try looking the other way and picking a boat up against the background of shore lights, or when its rainning etc.
As I understand it the collision regulations require at least 2 mile visibility. This requires about 12 of the very best quality brightest 5mm LEDs driven correctly at their maximum brightness.
prv
Well-Known Member
Not careful enough
Rule 30 says that you must show an all-round white light when anchored.
Rule 22 says that an all-round white light must be visible from two miles.
People may argue over whether this is necessary in practice (with the advent of LEDs I find it easy to comply, so why argue?) but it's incorrect to claim that the rules don't specify.
Pete
nortada
Well-Known Member
Not careful enough
Rule 30 says that you must show an all-round white light when anchored.
Rule 22 says that an all-round white light must be visible from two miles.
People may argue over whether this is necessary in practice (with the advent of LEDs I find it easy to comply, so why argue?) but it's incorrect to claim that the rules don't specify.
Pete
Thanks - must try harder.
My oil lamp was never all round vision nor bright enough but my mast head Lobo light meet those requirements.
The lower garden lights 'deck lights' establish the exact position of the boat close-in.
Lobo diode light uses virtually no power.
Job done.
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Sybaris
Well-Known Member
+1 (that's what boaters want, that's what we get)
Reading the numerous threads on anchor lights there seems to be so many sailors that "know better" so my suggestion is that the Colregs need to be changed regarding lights to something like "use any lights you want because you all know best how to be seen".
RupertW
Well-Known Member
Well, if your alternative is "follow the Colregs although the light will be in the wrong place to avoid being hit", then no wonder we have to be practical, not legal. A colreg written for a ship anchoring in a main channel might not be right for a group of yachts trying to avoid each other in a shallow unlit bay.
BrianH
Well-Known Member
nortada said:
There are garden lights and garden lights.
Like nortada my 'garden light' is a double LED and has also two AA rechargeable batteries. In addition it has a fresnel-type surrounding lens that focusses the light emission into a plane that can be seen the regulatory 2 miles - I have checked. It is also well-illuminated by dawn, although I do not know how much of a role having the Adriatic sunshine to charge the batteries during the day plays in that.
So I too like my "garden light"
NormanS
Well-Known Member
Why do you think the Col Regs need to be changed?
Rule 30 (b). "A vessel of less than 50 metres in length may exhibit an all-round white light WHERE IT CAN BEST BE SEEN instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule. (My capitals).
I imagine that most of us on here fall into the above category.
noelex
Well-Known Member
5 mm LEDs have a limited angle of output so there can be no concentration in the vertical direction. The fresnel lens on your anchor light only serves to diffuse the limited horizontal output of the LEDs over 360 degrees. In diffusing the light over a larger area the brightness is reduced.
Have a look at the calculations here:
http://www.bebi-electronics.com/specs.html#NichiaLED
It shows conclusively that 2x5 mm LEDs are long way below the level needed to meet the collision requirements. (About 12 are needed and that assumes the best quality LEDs driven correctly)
On a practical level and can confirm that in many situations 2x5mm do not provide enough illumination for boats entering an anchorage. Even the more sophisticated 5x5mm LEDs are not adequate in heavy rain with a background of shore lights.
When cheap LEDs are available with more than adequate output and minimal power draw I don't understand the desire to use something substandard. If nothing else its easy to prove in the event of a collision that the lighting was inadequate.
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BrianH
Well-Known Member
I am sure you are technically correct, noelex, and in the sort of scenarios you postulate I would also switch on my all-round, white top-light. However, in the real-world, quiet bays that I normally anchor in, with no commercial traffic or shore lights and clearly anchoring places frequented only by leisure craft, my garden light is adequate and likely much more noticeable than a majority of others; many of whom have no light at all, or a confusing top-light that does little to indicate where the hull is when close up, which is when an anchor light is most necessary.
pteron
Well-Known Member
The BEBI page is well out of date. LEDs exceeded Fluorescent bulb lm/W a couple of years ago for instance.
The bit about a low forward voltage LED somehow drawing more current in a series string is also shall we say 'interesting'.
The bit about a low forward voltage LED somehow drawing more current in a series string is also shall we say 'interesting'.
noelex
Well-Known Member
I agree there are some faults and as soon as you write anything about LEDs these days its out of date.
That does not diminish the underlying message that the LED garden lights fall well short of meeting the brightness requirements. Generally by a factor of around 10x.
syfuga
Well-Known Member
We were anchored on the Vilaine the other day and were confused by a yacht motoring up with a green light on her port side, and the glimmer of a reflected red to starboard. As she passed I saw that she was blue hulled and Dutch, so in the morning I sought her out where she was berthed at Foleux marina. Unfortunately the crew were not aboard, so I left a message with the marina and with a French yacht nearby.
It was impossible to tell, looking at the LEDs what colour they emitted, the fitting having no coloured filter in place.
So if you see the blue Dutch yacht "Charlotte", check if my message got through to her skipper!
(Or have I got something fundamental wrong?)
It was impossible to tell, looking at the LEDs what colour they emitted, the fitting having no coloured filter in place.
So if you see the blue Dutch yacht "Charlotte", check if my message got through to her skipper!
(Or have I got something fundamental wrong?)
lenseman
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 3 Jun 2006
- Messages
- 7,077
- Location
- South East Coast - United Kingdom
Almost certainly this vessel:
"CHARLOTTE"
MMSI - 244620335
Callsign - PB4037
Currently on the Vilaine.
.
prv
Well-Known Member
I saw the same on a small RIB at the weekend. I can only assume that some numpty had been told "the green light goes on the right", and he was standing facing the boat when he remembered it.
Pete
syfuga
Well-Known Member
David,
Is she fitted with AIS or one of your clever tracking devices? She's possibly permanently berthed at Foleux - but it is only a week since we saw her there.
Is she fitted with AIS or one of your clever tracking devices? She's possibly permanently berthed at Foleux - but it is only a week since we saw her there.
affinite
Well-Known Member
Just got back from a few weeks in Turkey/Greece and Im in two minds re anchor lights.
On the one hand I like to see compliance with current regs re anchor lights so that I know what Im looking at and dont have to guess if Im looking at a lighthouse some way off. That said I have to admit that when manouvering in an anchorage after dark, the small flashing white anchor lights do show up better than the non-flashing (and compliant) variety ...
Best deviation from regulation I saw last week was on a large anchored Greek flagged yacht. It had;
White light on mast head
Flashing white light at boom level
Flashing blue light mounted on Pulpit rail
2 x Red flashing lights mounted on stern pushpit rails
Couldnt miss it - it looked like a 70's disco !
On the one hand I like to see compliance with current regs re anchor lights so that I know what Im looking at and dont have to guess if Im looking at a lighthouse some way off. That said I have to admit that when manouvering in an anchorage after dark, the small flashing white anchor lights do show up better than the non-flashing (and compliant) variety ...
Best deviation from regulation I saw last week was on a large anchored Greek flagged yacht. It had;
White light on mast head
Flashing white light at boom level
Flashing blue light mounted on Pulpit rail
2 x Red flashing lights mounted on stern pushpit rails
Couldnt miss it - it looked like a 70's disco !