Fruit Schooners

[StuartGolding]

I have long had an interest in the Schooner rig for its power and grace and I have been reading much about the design and development of the vessels for the merchant fleet. I have a particular interest in the speed of these vessels because I am a yacht racer (speed is addictive to us) but I am also a Blackwater boy, Essex through and through and so I was enchanted to discover that vessels were built for the fruit trade and butter trade here in Essex at Wivenhoe, Rowhedge e.t.c. I would very much like to get hold of as much information as possible on these local craft so that I might build my own model and add the information on them to my library of local craft. Paintings, drawing, diagrams, half models, recollections, reconstructions, ships names, builders, yards all is of interest to me but I don’t know where to start! I have John Leathers Gaff Rig Handbook which mentions the centre of the fruit trade as London in the 1840’s and that many were built in Essex and Suffolk. He cites Messrs Adams as owning many and lists Bayley’s of Ipswich, James Howard of mistley (Countess of Wilton), Thomas and John Harvey of Wivenhoe (Peri and others) as being prominent in the building of these fine craft, could anyone point me in the right direction to start researching these craft or help me directly?
Does anyone have any pointers??

Cheers, Black Jack

 

[Poignard]

Hervey Benham wrote several books about East Coast sailing vessels, you might find information there.

If you are within reach of the National Maritime Museum, Greenwich you can use their fantastic library. Another resource would be local history societies and libraries, museums in the area and old newspapers

 

[Mirelle]

Hervey's "Last Stronghold of Sail" is one that mentions fruit schooners. There may be references in his other books - I've got them and will check over the weekend.

But I fancy that the fastest schooners of the lot were another class of local schooner - the "buttermen" which carried fresh butter from the Channel Islands - the name survives in Butterman's Bay on the Orwell, which I presume was where they discharged rather than waste time backing and filling up to Ipswich

 

[dombuckley]

A couple of good books are: "Merchant Schooners" by Basil Greenhill (still the classic work on design, construction and operation of small merchant sailing vessels, with excellent illustrations and photos), and "Schooners in 4 centuries" by David MacGregor (with many line diagrams, useful for the modeller).

 

[davidt]

Hi there....being resident of Wivenhoe, can I strongly suggest that you visit the Nottage and in particular their library. I was doing a VHF course there on Sunday and they have a load of pictures/photos on their walls of Fruit schooners. They also have a significant collection of half models produced for many of the local yards. Would not suprise me if there is one for what you are after.

You might want to look at some records in connection with Colchester itself as some schooners were built on the Hythe.

Hope this is of help.

Cheers

DT

 

[StuartGolding]

Hi,

and thanks for the advice! I have checked Hervey benhams last stronghold of sail, although it only contains passing references it has some names that may well prove useful. I have e-mailed the grenwhich museum but have recieved no reply as yet so a visit may be in order soon! thanks once again and when I have collated all my information I will post again here with what I know

 

[StuartGolding]

I have also checked what people have to say about buttermen, it seems to me at the moment that vessels such as the Peri built at Wivenhoe were referred to as a 'butterman' but also carried in the fruit trade (from the late John Leather). I am not sure whether butterman might refer to a particular rig variation or design differences within the hull but it seems that east coast vessels might have been interchangeable in these trades. If you know where i might find out more please let me know!

 

[StuartGolding]

I have a copy of the merchant schooners and I am reading Macgregors The Schooner, I also have hervey benhams last stronghold of sail but I am awaiting a copy of fast sailing ships their design and construction and a similar book byHoward I Chappell. Do you know of any other useful sources?

 

[StuartGolding]

I have written to the Nottage but in a month have recieved no response, perhaps it is time for another day out!!

Thanks all who have posted here I will post a summary of what I know when all the info is in, in the meantime if you see or hear of anything I would very much appreciate your help,

Black Jack

 

[butterman]

schooners

Hi Stuart. Long time since you posted but I've only just signed up to this forum. Are you still looking for schooner information? I'm just in the process of making a model of the Peri and I would appreciate any input you or others may have.
Patrick

 

[Toucan13]

John Harvey - Peri

Hello Butterman

I live in Wivenhoe and am currently re-building the yacht 'Volante' which we believe is the only surviving Harvey designed and built boat. I have been doing some research in regards to John Harvey and the Harvey yard in general and would like to hear more about your model of Peri.

I'm guessing that you may already have seen the book by James Dodds regarding the shipbuilders on the Colne. It contains some good images of Fruit schooners.

Happy model building!!
D