Friction ring genoa trim

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Ric

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The new Jeanneau 349 has an interesting system for trimming the genoa. There is an article and photo here:

http://www.bwsailing.com/bw/blue-water-sailing/boat-reviews-jeanneau-349/

Can anybody explain better how this system works? In the photo I presume that the black line is the sheet, and the grey line is the "control line". I can't understand how the grey line can have much control over the position of the friction ring, because the position of the ring is constrained (except fore and aft) by the small diameter lines that are attached to hard points on the deck.

Has anybody sailed with a system like this? Does it permit trimming of the genoa on all points of sail? Does the ring on the lazy sheet side of the boat not tend to rattle about on the deck?

I can see that it will be very attractive to mass-production yards as it will mean no need for expensive tracks on the deck.
 
Looks like an over-complicated solution on a cruising boat.

Presumably there is Barber hauler control line on both sides? If you keep some tension in the windward control line that will probably keep the o-ring raised above the deck? For me, it would be just another thing to have to remember! :)

Richard
 
In that photo the light coloured line is the mainsheet, the dark is the jib sheet and the rings are fixed not adjustable. Adjustable is an option.
 
Buck Turgidson said:
In that photo the light coloured line is the mainsheet, the dark is the jib sheet and the rings are fixed not adjustable. Adjustable is an option.
Click to expand...

Aha - all is clear now. I suppose that with the adjustable option there is a means of allowing the ring to float outboard - would be interesting to see a photo of the exact arrangement.
 
Buck Turgidson said:
In that photo the light coloured line is the mainsheet, the dark is the jib sheet and the rings are fixed not adjustable. Adjustable is an option.
Click to expand...

I don't think so. The mainsheet runs through the line organiser so it's either the white line or the red line.

The grey line must therefore be the barber hauler lookalike used for adjusting the jib sheet eye. See my post #2

Richard
 
It's certainly intriguing. I'm wondering, regarding the adjustable version, whether the mainsheet sharing the friction ring is a hindrance or (just possibly) a help. I mean that at first thought, you may well need to unload the main in order to adjust the ring position, which I'd find unsatisfactory. Then again is it possible that because the mainsheet pulls the ring up and inboard, whereas the genoa sheet pulls the ring up and outboard, it could actually be easier to adjust the ring position under load than if the mainsheet was elsewhere?

I must say however that I'm inherently skeptical about the benefits of a friction ring over a block, even when the angle turned is small. And even more uncomfortable about two different primary elements of the running rigging sharing the same ring. Feel free to call me a Luddite.
 
Alan ashore said:
It's certainly intriguing. I'm wondering, regarding the adjustable version, whether the mainsheet sharing the friction ring is a hindrance or (just possibly) a help. I mean that at first thought, you may well need to unload the main in order to adjust the ring position, which I'd find unsatisfactory. Then again is it possible that because the mainsheet pulls the ring up and inboard, whereas the genoa sheet pulls the ring up and outboard, it could actually be easier to adjust the ring position under load than if the mainsheet was elsewhere?

I must say however that I'm inherently skeptical about the benefits of a friction ring over a block, even when the angle turned is small. And even more uncomfortable about two different primary elements of the running rigging sharing the same ring. Feel free to call me a Luddite.
Click to expand...

The combination with the mainsheet does seem a bit dubious. But I don't think there's anything wrong with using a bullseye (even if referred to by a trendy new name :) ) with slippery dyneema.

(I know Jeanneau themselves are calling it a "friction ring", but I think that's a case of mangling the term in translation - it would be better described as a "low-friction ring".)

Pete
 
i like the idea a lot, gets rid of tracks which in most cases are a pain to move under load, with a cheap and extremely flexible system for infinite control from the cockpit and its easy enough to get control lines on to winches if you make your own system. The old deck hardware on my boat is well set up to handle some 6mm dyneema control lines leading to winches so you can shape the sail quite easily without having to mess around with old genoa track and cars. also gives you the ability so set the leech tension and then sheet at the desired angle to the wind using a third control line which appeals to me, like how the traveler works on the main. None of this means im good enough sailor to gain much from this i just like the idea!
 
Now that I understand better how it works and how it is trimmed, I also like the concept a lot. Forget the mainsheet through the same ring - that is clearly not a good idea. But running the genoa sheet through a ring that can be adjusted both inboard and outboard from lines to a winch on the coachroof seems like it might well be an advantage over cumbersome, heavy deck tracks and blocks.
 
I agree with all that has been said. Certainly the mainsheet used to hold the ring up is pretty doubtful. I don't see any real problem with dropping the ring on the deck when it is the non used jib sheet. I wonder why they call it a "friction ring" when the whole idea is for minimum friction?
The idea of a line adjustable sheeting point for fore and aft (up and down) is ideal for use with a furling jib where any rolls in the jib would require adjustment of the sheeting point.
You can use a track moved by hand with locks or a track slid along by control lines or as in this case a simple up and down line. The latter being easily adjusted under load.
I would have a vertical up and down fairly close in with a secondary outboard pull for sronger winds and off the wind.
I did see a long time ago a 100ft maxi racer where the outboard position was set by a track and the up and down (fore and aft )position was set by a dyneems line.
So really jib sheet tracks are expensive and old fashioned. But I still use mine. good luck olewill
 
BelleSerene said:
I like that idea of changing the mainsail sheeting angle. But the other purpose of the original bridle arrangement was for purchase on the mainsheet. Presumably with this (German?) sheeting system the main will be much harder to pull in?

View attachment 58148
Click to expand...

Sort of, but then the intention is that it's double ended and each end goes to a winch, so it's probably not really relevant.

It is extremely interesting the continued development of "light" solutions to traditional block and car systems.
 
I crew on a 33i Performance (traveller mounted in the cockpit ) in the local races and the owner has traded it on a new 349

One disadvantage i can see is if you have crew on the rail and tack, on the 33i it was a easy to go ever the cabin top and under the boom to the opposite rail but on the 349 i cant see that this will be possible with all of the sheets that will be in the way

Regards Don
 
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