French seller doesn't have all the paperwork...

[westernman]

I think there a bit more of an issues then just that , if and when the time come to sell the boat if he not got prove of VAT has been paid then he will have a problem finding a buyer , unless it a very cheap boats , I am guess it not .
www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

But he has the proof - probably one of the best proofs available, that of a piece of paper issued on behalf of the government rather than an easily falsified supposed VAT invoice which proves nothing.

 

[Jim@sea]

Why not try and ask a Yacht Broker in St Tropez if for a nominal figure if he would run it through his books. A few years ago we did this sort of thing at the Car Auction I ran, if someone was buying something "outside" the Auction we would run it through our books, charge a nominal commission, that way it was HPi'd etc. And assuming you would keep it in St Tropez if you tried to Insure it you might struggle as when I insured the French Boat I bought in Brittany I had to have a survey and the surveyor wanted to see the Registration Document. (bit like a passport with the sellers photograph in it) and although the boat was a 1986 proof of VAT paid.

 

[Tranona]

Why not try and ask a Yacht Broker in St Tropez if for a nominal figure if he would run it through his books. A few years ago we did this sort of thing at the Car Auction I ran, if someone was buying something "outside" the Auction we would run it through our books, charge a nominal commission, that way it was HPi'd etc. And assuming you would keep it in St Tropez if you tried to Insure it you might struggle as when I insured the French Boat I bought in Brittany I had to have a survey and the surveyor wanted to see the Registration Document. (bit like a passport with the sellers photograph in it) and although the boat was a 1986 proof of VAT paid.

Can you explain what advantage there is in "running it through the books" of a broker? There is no such thing as an HPI for a boat. What would be achieved by involving a broker to resolve the OP's questions?

 

[youen]

Normally the French Custom keep in theirs folders a copy of the first bill of sale with the status of the vat when the boat was bought and registered for the first time and then every bill of sale each time she is sold.Each registered boat in France has a small orange book:Acte de francisation -Certificat de navigation,so you must retrieve all the history of the vessel.When some years ago (2006) I sold my sailing boat to a British menwe found at the French custom the original bill of sale with the vat status established in 1974.

 

[roddie]

Thanks. I understand the seller has the Cert de Navigation, but I am waiting to see it for myself. I think its reasonable for the French customs to accept that even if we go on to re register it British as proof of VAT paid...but I am concerned they may not be reasonable (or in Italy, Corsica etc) if we become a 'british' boat with no original VAT thingy (as apparently even photocopies are not accepted I have read here) and this document instead...mixing and matching.
I know its ok from a common sense point of view, but not ok if they are pedantic and insist on box ticking and fining for the hell of it....which is why I asked how often this actually happens in reality by forum users experiences.

 

[GAJ]

This is my experience of the situation.
If the seller has the Titre De Navigation (the 'Orange Book') and the boat is still registered in France then the TVA has been paid. Proof for others than the French is what is required.
If you buy the boat then it has to be removed from the French register at its port of registry. This is done by the Douanes and produces a document called 'CERTIFICAT DE RADIATION de l'EFFECTIF NAVAL et du PAVILLON FRANCAIS' or RadPav for short!
This document is issued by the Douanes and if you ask them nicely they will add the note 'Ce navaire à acquitté régulièrement LA TVA en FRANCE'.
As the Orange Book does not pass into the new owners possesion I think it prudent to require a copy of the document then you would also have a record of the previous French registered owners. As a copy it may not be a legal document but at least it would be something to refer to should the the doo dah hit the fan in some foreign land.

 

[youen]

I agree totally with GAJ, But if the boat stays registered in France the Orange book is kept by the new owner.

 

[roddie]

This is my experience of the situation.
If the seller has the Titre De Navigation (the 'Orange Book') and the boat is still registered in France then the TVA has been paid. Proof for others than the French is what is required.
If you buy the boat then it has to be removed from the French register at its port of registry. This is done by the Douanes and produces a document called 'CERTIFICAT DE RADIATION de l'EFFECTIF NAVAL et du PAVILLON FRANCAIS' or RadPav for short!
This document is issued by the Douanes and if you ask them nicely they will add the note 'Ce navaire à acquitté régulièrement LA TVA en FRANCE'.
As the Orange Book does not pass into the new owners possesion I think it prudent to require a copy of the document then you would also have a record of the previous French registered owners. As a copy it may not be a legal document but at least it would be something to refer to should the the doo dah hit the fan in some foreign land.

That is a really helpful reply - thanks
Have been in touch with the Dounes but will liaise with the current owner as you have suggested to achieve the above.
Ta

 

[roddie]

I agree totally with GAJ, But if the boat stays registered in France the Orange book is kept by the new owner.

We intend to re register SSR if we can.

 

[youen]

I am sure you can.