French canals ?

[pragmatist]

Has any non-EU boater traversed them ? We (2 Brits with dog) have for many years planned to "do" the French canals. We now have a boat with suitable draught. But we would like to do it slowly - taking more than 90 days. So I looked up the rules for a long stay visa and the web site includes this paragraph :

• Accommodation
  • Proof of residency of the host in France: rental agreement or property tirle or, if applicable, statement signed by the host confirming the establishment in France. Any particuliar situation will require an explaination letter.

Do you suppose that a letter explaining a leisure trip through the canals would be accepted ?

I believe that there were a couple of Aussies who bought a Prout 34 in the UK and ended their cruise in Greece. So am hoping that it would be feasible. Presumably each country would require a separate visa if one wanted to sail the Med ? All experiences would be most interesting. All this does, of course, assume that Covid restrictions would not prevent such a trip.

TIA
Penny

 

[Sandy]

You can apply for other visas that give far longer in France than the standard countries in a parallel universe '3rd country' 90/180 days. Contacting the French Embassy would be my first port of call. They will be able to definitively answer your question.

EDIT: Had a look at the French Embassy as I'd quite like the freedom to enter and leave France at will and found this.

Long-stay visa | France-Visas.gouv.fr

 

[AngusMcDoon]

This is something I'm wondering about, and have not found a definitive answer yet. The problem I can see is that any visa allowing a stay beyond 90 days in France is deemed temporary residence. This then brings the additional problem that the temporary admission (TA) rules of a non-EU VAT paid boat state that it is not allowed for residents of an EU country, so although you may be able to go France for more than 90 days, in effect your boat can't if you have a long stay visa.

Noonsite seem to suggest this as well...

One thing to be aware of is that if you have any type of resident’s visa, you cannot use your boat in the EU unless it is VAT paid.

from here...

European Union | Noonsite

The only workaround for a slow bimble down the canals I can see is set off in August and get to the Med by October. Then dump your boat ashore until the following spring, and come back the following year. This would also allow a shorter maintenance/check visit in December. If you stick to the 90/180 rules then your boat is fine as the TA rules allow 18 months.

We really need a campaign to get the UK to accept the 180/360 Schengen travel regime that the EU offered the UK but which our guvmint rejected.

 

[LittleSister]

This is something I'm wondering about, and have not found a definitive answer yet. The problem I can see is that any visa allowing a stay beyond 90 days in France is deemed temporary residence. This then brings the additional problem that the temporary admission (TA) rules of a non-EU VAT paid boat state that it is not allowed for residents of an EU country, so although you may be able to go France for more than 90 days, in effect your boat can't if you have a long stay visa.

Noonsite seem to suggest this as well...



from here...

European Union | Noonsite

The only workaround for a slow bimble down the canals I can see is set off in August and get to the Med by October. Then dump your boat ashore until the following spring, and come back the following year. This would also allow a shorter maintenance/check visit in December. If you stick to the 90/180 rules then your boat is fine as the TA rules allow 18 months.

We really need a campaign to get the UK to accept the 180/360 Schengen travel regime that the EU offered the UK but which our guvmint rejected.

On another thread on YBW it is suggested that it is only after 6 months in France that you become liable for tax, which I assume is based on you then being considered resident. I have no first hand knowledge, though.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

On another thread on YBW it is suggested that it is only after 6 months in France that you become liable for tax, which I assume is based on you then being considered resident. I have no first hand knowledge, though.

Yes, I know. There's conflicting information about, which is why clarification is needed. I expect this issue hasn't been much of a problem since B happened because of C. Hopefully it will become clearer soon.

 

[Sandy]

Yes, I know. There's conflicting information about, which is why clarification is needed. I expect this issue hasn't been much of a problem since B happened because of C. Hopefully it will become clearer soon.

Hence my comment about contacting the French Embassy. There is so much misinformation about that only the French Government can clarify the situation and provide documentation, if needed, for such a passage.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Hence my comment about contacting the French Embassy. There is so much misinformation about that only the French Government can clarify the situation and provide documentation, if needed, for such a passage.

I agree. I have in query in place, but no response yet. Last time I asked a guvmint a question like this where the rules were unclear (arriving in Scotland by boat during Covid restrictions) it took 4 months to get an answer. Maybe if we flood them with the same question they'll take the hint and put more information on their website.

 

[SandyP]

Take 3 months going south
Sail to North Africa etc, non Schengen
Stay for 3 months
So back north for 3 months (or never return, I probably wouldn't)

 

[st599]

On another thread on YBW it is suggested that it is only after 6 months in France that you become liable for tax, which I assume is based on you then being considered resident. I have no first hand knowledge, though.

The French Visa website states that for tourist trips of over 3 months:
You must apply for a long-stay “visitor” visa. You will be issued with a long-stay visa serving as a residence permit (VLS-TS). This visa is subject to an online validation procedure after you arrive in France.

The issues that you need to be careful of and get advice on is:

1. Residents can't use Temporary Admission
2. Without hotel accommodation, the daily requirement is 120 Euros

 

[AngusMcDoon]

The French Visa website states that for tourist trips of over 3 months:
You must apply for a long-stay “visitor” visa. You will be issued with a long-stay visa serving as a residence permit (VLS-TS). This visa is subject to an online validation procedure after you arrive in France.

The issues that you need to be careful of and get advice on is:

1. Residents can't use Temporary Admission
2. Without hotel accommodation, the daily requirement is 120 Euros

Number 1 could be the killer. Number 2 you have to show that you have funds available, for example a bank account statement. You don't have to spend it. I'm waiting on a reply from the French embassy on number 1. It's the interpretation of "serving as a residence permit" that this hangs on.

 

[pragmatist]

Thank you all for your responses. Didn't realise, AngusMcDoon, that your wings would fold to let you through the canals !

Re the paperwork, it does sound daunting. Particularly if one wanted to move on from France to other EU countries in the Med. We once enquired of our insurers about extending the sailing area and there was a big difference in price between the cost of sailing the north or south coasts.

Will be thinking about this in parallel with our other mad cruising idea ! Watch this space for questions !

TIA
Penny

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Reply received from the French embassy in London to the question of whether a 6 month tourist visa counts as residency preventing use of the TA of a UK VAT paid boat:

A French Consulate does not deal with taxes in France and you’ll have to contact the neareste centre des impôts and/or the marina headquarters where your boat is located.

++GENERAL INFORMATION++

VLS-TS visa de long séjour valant titre de séjour = Long Stay Visitor visa implying settlement in France / France becomes the country of regulat residence / OFII procedure to be completed in France / once expired, its holder is allowed to renew it directly at the local 'Préfecture' and if granted, the issued document will be a 'carte de séjour' (not a long stay visa anymore)

VLS-T visa de long séjour temporaire = Temporary Long Stay Visitor visa allowing up to 180 days / the UK remains the country of regular residence / cannot be renewed in France and its holder will have to leave France once its is expired

1/Compliance with French laws
-your temporary French long stay visa (VLS-T) = you may travel between the UK and France as many times as you wish to while it is valid / No paperwork to be done in France as the UK will remain your country of main residence
-You won't be allowed to apply for a new VLS-T after the expired one as this would mean that you actually live in France (France = country of regular residence) and not in the UK = Only one VLS-T per year
-If you intend to move and settle in France, pay your taxes over there, etc, you'd have to apply for a long stay visa with OFII procedure upon arrival (VLS-TS)

2/Compliance with Schengen laws
-Should you wish to go back to France once your VLS-T is expired, you'll have to comply with the 90 day credit per 180 day period without visa in the Schengen area
-You'll have to have your passport's stamped by French Authorities when crossing borders / your French entry stamp will begin your allowed 90 day credit within the 180 day period in the Schengen area.

On other words, one can get a 6 month VLS-T (=French Laws) and then use their 90 day Schengen credit within the following 180 day period without visa (= Schengen Laws)

So they didn't really answer the question but from the General Information where I have highlighted text in bold seems to suggest that with a 6 month tourist visa you are not a resident in France so you could take your UK VAT paid boat under TA. What is also not clear is if 'Only one VLS-T per year' is per rolling time period, like Schengen, or per calendar year. Either way, you could do...

1 April to 30 September in France on tourist visa
1 October to 31 December relocate to another Schengen country
1 January to 31 March The crew leave the EU for a non EU country or return home to the UK, leaving the boat somewhere in the EU outside France

and then repeat, taking into account the need for the boat to spend 1 day outside the EU every 18 months.

 

[LittleSister]

Reply received from the French embassy in London to the question of whether a 6 month tourist visa counts as residency preventing use of the TA of a UK VAT paid boat:



So they didn't really answer the question but from the General Information where I have highlighted text in bold seems to suggest that with a 6 month tourist visa you are not a resident in France so you could take your UK VAT paid boat under TA. What is also not clear is if 'Only one VLS-T per year' is per rolling time period, like Schengen, or per calendar year. Either way, you could do...

1 April to 30 September in France on tourist visa
1 October to 31 December another Schengen country
1 January to 31 March Outside EU or return home

and then repeat.

Thanks for obtaining and posting that, Angus. While it doesn't answer all questions, it does make things generally much clearer, at least for me.