French Canals - Mast thoughts

[Chris_Robb]

We go down the French canals in April/May. The mast will overhang by 1.5 mtrs each end.

I am also waiting for a quote from Le Havre to ship to Marseilles, but they want to know the weight of the mast and diameter etc - I have the length but cannot get the other info such as weight out of Seldon. its becoming a pain, so I think I might revert to plan B which was to carry the mast!

Those who have done it before, what would you do? Money needs to be well spent, and I am prepared to put up with some inconvenience from the mast.

 

[Tranona]

Have you tried www.masttransporte.de Comes with good recommendations from other forumites.Planning to use them when I do the Canal du Midi next year

 

[Grehan]

Carrying a mast through the canals

Carrying a mast is not exactly desirable - it is more convenient to have it transported - but not transporting is not a huge problem and it does save a not insignificant cost. One soon gets used to the 'lance' sticking out fore and aft.
Locks (ecluses) constitute the key area where nerves get stretched a bit - concern about the sensitive top end getting bashed (usually arranged to be at the aft end of the boat when being carried) against the lock wall., But again, one very quickly learns to cope and control.
The other thing to be careful of, is actually supporting the thing in the context of passing ships and their wakes. The shaking that happens must be considered and supports made strong enough and lashing down such as to restrain rocking both fore and aft; and side-to-side.
As tranona says, masttransport.de comes well recommended and Stephan at Le Havre knows them.
http://www.tagweb.co.uk/grehan/-masts.html for further information about de-masting and re-masting.

 

[Cspirit]

Masts and canals

I've done the trip to the Med via the canals a couple of times. I wouldn't consider taking the mast with me, although I know that others do without problems. On one occasion when a barge nearly took us out, we would certainly have lost the mast if it had been on board. Also, the convenience of having a clear deck is worth the transportation cost alone in my view, not forgetting the reduction in draft due to the weight loss. I agree with Tranona re transport - I've used these people to transport the mast Le Havre-Port Napoleon. No problems and reasonable price. Also, see Stephen Reiset in Le Havre re de-masting. He knows his stuff.

 

[prescott56]

we went down 3 years ago, with the mast on A frames.
Dropped the mast at Le Havre, the guys there won't come on your boat but will guide you every step of the way...they really are excellent.
We have a '79 Moody 36 mast is about 12.5 metres, so overhang wasn't to bad.
We banged the mast a couple of times on the locks to Paris, but that was a steep learning curve allround....hehheheh. Didn't break the mast head light so couldn't have been that bad.
Having the mast on deck is a bit of a pain, but i tried to make the A frames as high as possible. As we went further down we actually found the mast quite useful, Tied the sail bags on top, solar panel, Aerial, bikes ...was ok. and would do it again if need be.
Worse part for me was getting from Le Havre out in the channel then back into the Seine...I am sure the mast fell overboard half a dozen times...

Other than that was an excellent trip...Read Grehans site 5-6 times before you go its more than useful.
Also other thing is to get fenders sorted millions of them and with a nice good plank, Do both sides then you don't need to swap them over. Also put a cloth twix hull and fenders.
Take a lot of spare fender string.

Have a nice trip, If you need crew speak to my missus, she loved every minute and would sell the boat tomorrow and buy a peniche.

Regards
Roy

 

[Chris_Robb]

we went down 3 years ago, with the mast on A frames.
Dropped the mast at Le Havre, the guys there won't come on your boat but will guide you every step of the way...they really are excellent.
We have a '79 Moody 36 mast is about 12.5 metres, so overhang wasn't to bad.
We banged the mast a couple of times on the locks to Paris, but that was a steep learning curve allround....hehheheh. Didn't break the mast head light so couldn't have been that bad.
Having the mast on deck is a bit of a pain, but i tried to make the A frames as high as possible. As we went further down we actually found the mast quite useful, Tied the sail bags on top, solar panel, Aerial, bikes ...was ok. and would do it again if need be.
Worse part for me was getting from Le Havre out in the channel then back into the Seine...I am sure the mast fell overboard half a dozen times...

Other than that was an excellent trip...Read Grehans site 5-6 times before you go its more than useful.
Also other thing is to get fenders sorted millions of them and with a nice good plank, Do both sides then you don't need to swap them over. Also put a cloth twix hull and fenders.
Take a lot of spare fender string.

Have a nice trip, If you need crew speak to my missus, she loved every minute and would sell the boat tomorrow and buy a peniche.

Regards
Roy

Good info - thanks.

I was thinking that I would have the head of the mast overhanging the stern, with some 2 x 2 strapped to it to ward off blows. What is most concerning is the bit from Le Havre to the Seine - so I think the best bet is to use Honfleur. But still tie the mast down very tight!

 

[prescott56]

Yeh, going from Honfluer saves a fair old trip out in to the channel. Dunno why we didn't do that DOH!!!
Saw boats going down with mast both ways...no idea which is best.
Be aware of forward and aft movement as well as side to side. Just keep checking the ropes as go down.

Also be careful when you start to lift the mast down south...
Me being impatient, i started to undo ropes whilst waiting for the crane guys at Sete...yes...did one to many and the mast dropped onto the pushpit and pulpit...bit of a bend in the pushpit but no other damage...apart from my acute embarrassment...I got the usual "Can't Bl**dy wait can you" from the missus....heheheh

Regards
Roy

 

[vyv_cox]

We go down the French canals in April/May. The mast will overhang by 1.5 mtrs each end.
Those who have done it before, what would you do? Money needs to be well spent, and I am prepared to put up with some inconvenience from the mast.

Canal du Midi. Mast down at Royan, followed by 50 miles up the Gironde, wide and exposed estuary. It is important to make the supports substantial and tie the mast down.

Mast re-stepped at Cap d'Agde. Our mast touched the wall in a couple of locks but only lightly so no damage. We soon learnt that we should have removed everything, including the tricolour. First photo is at Bordeaux on our first day, note no bucket over the furling gear and shroud ends. Later we bought one to protect the ends from these touches, evident in the second photo at Agde.

In one way we found having the mast aboard was helpful. Crew could reach the long bow warp with a boathook from the lock when it was hung on the spreaders. This was far easier than me trying to throw it to her.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Canal du Midi. Mast down at Royan, followed by 50 miles up the Gironde, wide and exposed estuary. It is important to make the supports substantial and tie the mast down.

Mast re-stepped at Cap d'Agde. Our mast touched the wall in a couple of locks but only lightly so no damage. We soon learnt that we should have removed everything, including the tricolour. First photo is at Bordeaux on our first day, note no bucket over the furling gear and shroud ends. Later we bought one to protect the ends from these touches, evident in the second photo at Agde.

In one way we found having the mast aboard was helpful. Crew could reach the long bow warp with a boathook from the lock when it was hung on the spreaders. This was far easier than me trying to throw it to her.

Good photos - quotes coming back in in the region of €900, if it was nearer €600, I might have gone that route - I will wait and see what I can squeeze in price.

 

[Cspirit]

Midi

Vyv,

I see from your picture that you have left your radar mast/aerials up. Did you manage to get under all the Midi bridges with them left up?

 

[LadyInBed]

'A' frame is the way to go. Make aft end above head height, if you haven't got a Bimini then you can put an awning over as the sun gets V hot! Also handy for tying bikes to.

 

[vyv_cox]

Vyv,

I see from your picture that you have left your radar mast/aerials up. Did you manage to get under all the Midi bridges with them left up?

There is a significant difference between the two pictures. In the first the antenna support and the antennas are above the radar scanner. In the second the support has been removed. This was because the latter one was taken after we had passed under the bridge at Narbonne, the lowest of all at 3.0 metres. Although we had removed the support prior to arriving there we think we would have got through with it up. Otherwise no problems at all so far as height is concerned. Possibly the only benefit of reduced water levels.

 

[Happydaze]

We have taken the mast with us both times without a problem. On north to south run we lowered the mast at Honfluer and raised it at Navy services. We stripped the mast of most things and carried on "A" frames so highest part was 3.4m above the water, this cleared all bridges and gave plenty of height to walk around the decks. We put 3/4 of the overhang at the back and with a large ball fender on each quarter, it kept the ends of the mast off the side wall of the locks. Extra bracing ropes were used whilst on the seine because of bow wash from commercial traffic. The mast is useful to support a sunshade or a rain cover. Enjoy the trip, we did.

 

[samwise]

We go down the French canals in April/May. The mast will overhang by 1.5 mtrs each end.

I am also waiting for a quote from Le Havre to ship to Marseilles, but they want to know the weight of the mast and diameter etc - I have the length but cannot get the other info such as weight out of Seldon. its becoming a pain, so I think I might revert to plan B which was to carry the mast!

Those who have done it before, what would you do? Money needs to be well spent, and I am prepared to put up with some inconvenience from the mast.

Chris

Overhangs each end can be a pain and the risk is that you sustain a bash in a lock that can result in a costly repair. We decided that the mast overhangs on our Westerly Storm were too vulnerable and shipped it from Navy Service near Port St Louis to Calais. I have, a number of times, recommended Wolfgang Graf mast transport, who did the job for us, and I note that you have already been given his email and website details.

You should also consider where you unstep and re-step the mast because not all marinas are top exponents. I have heard mixed reviews of Le Havre, but can recommend Navy Service who are highly professional. Marseilles of course is the other side of the bay, which might be an interesting trip without a mast if the weather is unkind.

If you are shipping the mast and boom, strip it down as much as you can i.e. standing rigging, running rigging, lights, aerials wind instruments etc. Take all these with you and wrap what's left in industrial clingfilm. I say this because I had some snapshackles nicked off my mast while on the rack in a marina waiting for us to arrive.

Just realised, this is my one thousandth post ! Do I get a gold badge from Dan?

 

[Mrnotming]

protecting mast ends

WE used the high A-Frames bolted at axis and strapped a tyre on the sensitive end of the mast as well as an enamel bowl purloined from SWMBO's galley.Gave it one or two clouts whilst tussling with narky sand peniches in the upper Seine due to turbulance in the lock. If they won't turn off their engines or at least stop their props from churning, hang about in the lock entrance, shouting and gesticulating in appropriate fashion until they comply.The guy in the high control tower will abuse them over the VHF but the patois is unintelligible to most, so your handheld VHF will be almost useless.however phrases like "le feu verte est pour moi`? Oui ou Non?" are useful to avoid being compressed by a following 600 ton car carrier trying to use the same space.In crosswinds these vessels have to keep way on to avoid hitting the lock entrance and frequently stone chips fly!So you must be sure which of the two locks side by side is the one for you!Had a great time, & as mentioned above if going from Le Havre and out to sea and up the Seine, the mast will try to oscillate in any waves so check all straps whilst underway.Big lorry strops may be as useful as rope. Had lots of fun, got to the Med, just wondering when we'll ever come back!Good sailing from Snowy and frozen Dublin!

 

[Chris_Robb]

WE used the high A-Frames bolted at axis and strapped a tyre on the sensitive end of the mast as well as an enamel bowl purloined from SWMBO's galley.Gave it one or two clouts whilst tussling with narky sand peniches in the upper Seine due to turbulance in the lock. If they won't turn off their engines or at least stop their props from churning, hang about in the lock entrance, shouting and gesticulating in appropriate fashion until they comply.The guy in the high control tower will abuse them over the VHF but the patois is unintelligible to most, so your handheld VHF will be almost useless.however phrases like "le feu verte est pour moi`? Oui ou Non?" are useful to avoid being compressed by a following 600 ton car carrier trying to use the same space.In crosswinds these vessels have to keep way on to avoid hitting the lock entrance and frequently stone chips fly!So you must be sure which of the two locks side by side is the one for you!Had a great time, & as mentioned above if going from Le Havre and out to sea and up the Seine, the mast will try to oscillate in any waves so check all straps whilst underway.Big lorry strops may be as useful as rope. Had lots of fun, got to the Med, just wondering when we'll ever come back!Good sailing from Snowy and frozen Dublin!

Lots of good ideas, it seems that I need to learn the truckers knot to tighten everything up properly.

Roll on the end of March!!!!

 

[prv]

KS spent a while on the French canals on her way back from the Med, and has all sorts of weird and wonderful ditchcrawling mods. Mast related ones are:

First, a welded metal bracket that fits into the mast tabernacle and supports the front end of the mast. The boom crutch is cut wide enough to support the aft end.

No electronics on the main masthead at all. More because "damn whirly things" interfered with the owner's habit of dressing overall than for canal purposes, but helpful nonetheless. The top surface of the truck has a thick rubber pad supposedly in case of collision, though I doubt it would actually do much. That's permanent and there even at sea.

A stern light on a wooden frame that bolts into special holes in the boom crutch, and plugs into the normal light socket at the mizzen foot.

A folding frame that straps to the upper surface of the stowed mainmast, and has a small vertical staff with a bicolour light on, again plugged via a long cable into the normal mast fitting on deck.

Pete

 

[Grehan]

There are relatively few situations (tunnels) on the waterways where one would be concerned about showing navigation lights. Travel at night is either not recommended (daft) or simply not allowed. Thunderstorms on rivers (such as we experienced - once - on the Saone) with low visibility and larger vessels around, would qualify. In tunnels (there aren't that many) one would be more interested in 'headlights' than 'sidelights'.
P.S vis a vis foregoing messages, close encounters with bigger peniches, especially in locks if they are powering their props, deffo to be avoided. Discretion the better part of valour. But we have done it, and have survived.

 

[binch]

Masts in canals.

Supports must be more strong than you thtought and if of the trestle type, the feet must be fixed to avoid toppling when rolling. It can happen, sometimes in narrow canals, passing a peniche can mean you are forrced into the shallow water at canal side and a deep keel can bounce a bit and shake things loose. This is not peniche bloodi-mindedness, they do have to hold the middle. So lash down as taut as you can.
Remove cross trees and any vulnerable mast-head junk. Fit a plastic bucket over either end, and behind that a tyre from a mini. Stuff bucket with polystyrene chips. or rings.
Very good fendering, with a 3 metre long plank of 250mm x 25mm soft wood hung outside of several fenders, all lashed together.
The main problem with locks is that yachts have rounded sides and lock walls are straight. Lock-side bitts are seldom well placed for yachts, though it is better than it was when all mooring bitts were 40 metres apart.
Try to arrange lashings so as not to hinder getting about. Very important.
On both main routes to the south, minimum headroom is 3m 40cm nominal, but remember that water levels can vary a bit so don't have too tight a fit.
Draught on either route is officially 1m 80, but my experience is that there are patches. There is usually plenty of water in Spring, but progress can be agricultural from time to time. Remember that when passing loaded barges, the water level can fall by half a metre.
If sending masts y road, remove cross-yards and all standing and running rigging and any electronic thingies. This is a nuisance, but we have known two occasions where owners have lost a good part of the rigging etc at P. Napoleon, where your mast may lie for some time before you arrive.
There is a Norfolk company who transport masts on a special trailer behind a range-rover and you can arrange it so you can travel with them.
This can be a lovely trip. The Marne route is slightly deeper and has less locks, but the other is more geared to small craft and has no tunnel. Don't worry about tunnel, make sure you can hold the centre if you have full height, and have a headlamp. Sidelights are supposed to be fitted, but many get on all right without being bothered.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Supports must be more strong than you thtought and if of the trestle type, the feet must be fixed to avoid toppling when rolling..

Thanks all - the message loud and clear is that the mast must be VERY secure, and the ends protected as well as possible. Shipping down is now just too expensive to consider.

To be honest, I am more apprehensive about meeting the Peniches. I met someone the otherday, who said (in the canals) just slow down to a crawl and stay in the middle, the Peniche will invariable stop, - then you can squeeze past each other. The trouble is I have no idea how wide the canal is! (or deep at the edge) but I suspect I should not be too worried - probably more worried because SWMBO will be totalled!