Grehan
Well-Known Member
Use a cyber cafe?
French Canals & Draught
- Thread starter Seah0rse
- Start date
boatmike
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Except if you were thinking about exiting at Agde, which is not such a daft idea if you're heading towards Spain, Gib and parts West. In fact, a pretty good one.
Correct, as book values.
The whole Midi, not just the central section, whatever that might be - you mean the centre line of the canal width, maybe?. And that is also somewhat optimistic.
This is a difficult idea. People in the office may not know the localised situation 'on the water' and will tend to quote that 'the VNF expects the minimum depth to be . . and then the book value. It's pretty impossible to contact local eclusiers who might know, but many of them are students and don't know one end of a rope from the other anyway.[from direct personal experience]
Sorry to be insistant on these points but others may really not know and be misguided. We often talk of the Canal Du Midi as the whole route. It isn't. You start on the Gironde and Garonne Then to the CdM proper then exit on the Nouvelle branch. The Central part of the Midi itself is the highest stretch and can be very shallow in times of low rainfall.
Also I did not suggest going into any VNF office and talking to the receptionist! The VNF however have LOCAL offices (see their website for addresses and telephone numbers) and are the best source of information on local conditions including current water levels, lock closures for maintenance and other issues. It is really worth a call to them. If you don't speak French find a local capitanerie and chat up someone who does and ask him/her to call for you. It's really worth it and in my experience they have always been very helpful. In fact their website itself tells you about closures and it is always a source of wonder to me that with all the info available many English people never ask. Is it because they are ashamed of their poor language skills perhaps?
samwise
Well-Known Member
That transport fee is quite expensive. Try Yachtservice Wolfgang Graf on www,masttransporte.de for a better deal. You will of course have to factor in storage at both ends, but it shouldn't be much. Wolfgang has a regular "milk round" so collection is pretty prompt. I would recommend stripping your mast to the bare pole if possible i.e. spreaders, running and standing rigging and lights and of course aerials, anemometers Windex etc. You can leave the wiring. This is (a) to prevent transit damage and (b) to frustrate thieves (sadly often fellow yachties). One of the best options I saw was to shrink wrap the mast, using that stuff they cocoon your luggage in at airports.
drawkins
Well-Known Member
the last time I came up the Rhone the internet hardly existed.Anyway I much prefer to chat to the locals who always seem very pleased to help
Grehan
Well-Known Member
To clarify, without I hope being too pedantic . . . The Canal Rhone a Sete connects the Petit Rhone (branch) with the Etang de Thau at Sete. Then the Canal des Deux Mers, which consists of two canals, the Canal du Midi (Etang de Thau/Sete to Toulouse) and the Canal de Garonne (Toulouse to Castets). These two are roughly the same length. Then a (tidal) stretch of the River Garonne from Castets to Bordeaux.
There are four potential yacht exits from this route into the Western Med. 1) At Grau du Roi beyond Aigues Mortes, then a short sea hop to Port Camargue for re-masting 2) Sete (or alternatively Frontignan) 3) River Herault at Grau d'Agde (access from the round lock at Agde), re-mast at Chantier Allemand 4) Port la Nouvelle, at the end of the Canal de la Robine/de Jonction (connects to the Midi near Capestang).
Our own experience of the Midi (a number of trips end to end) is that there are shallow areas (a) around the Libron crossing near Agde (b) west of the Foncerannes staircase and (c) between Villefranche and Montgiscard, towards Toulouse. Without disagreeing about the highest biefs' potential to be shallow (although not our own experience), the highest point, at la Segala, is well over 3/4 along the Midi. Beyond Toulouse the Canal de Garonne is usually ok for water supply, however this year there are areas thick with weed - particularly towards the Castets end and on the Montauban branch.
I agree with Samwise - and he has the recent experience - £2,000 sounds far too much for a north-south mast transport.
We also believe in talking to the locals and people are almost without exception friendly and keen to help . . but the Rhone Authority website is also a very good, clear and accurate resource and covers the complete river. The internet - including YBW!! - has been going for quite some time now!
There are four potential yacht exits from this route into the Western Med. 1) At Grau du Roi beyond Aigues Mortes, then a short sea hop to Port Camargue for re-masting 2) Sete (or alternatively Frontignan) 3) River Herault at Grau d'Agde (access from the round lock at Agde), re-mast at Chantier Allemand 4) Port la Nouvelle, at the end of the Canal de la Robine/de Jonction (connects to the Midi near Capestang).
Our own experience of the Midi (a number of trips end to end) is that there are shallow areas (a) around the Libron crossing near Agde (b) west of the Foncerannes staircase and (c) between Villefranche and Montgiscard, towards Toulouse. Without disagreeing about the highest biefs' potential to be shallow (although not our own experience), the highest point, at la Segala, is well over 3/4 along the Midi. Beyond Toulouse the Canal de Garonne is usually ok for water supply, however this year there are areas thick with weed - particularly towards the Castets end and on the Montauban branch.
I agree with Samwise - and he has the recent experience - £2,000 sounds far too much for a north-south mast transport.
We also believe in talking to the locals and people are almost without exception friendly and keen to help . . but the Rhone Authority website is also a very good, clear and accurate resource and covers the complete river. The internet - including YBW!! - has been going for quite some time now!
BurnitBlue
Well-Known Member
The rivers are a good deal deeper than the canals. There must be alternate routes than the canals although I have not seen a study of them.
Investigate starting in Nederlands then up the Rhine to the Rhine Rhone Canal then down the Rhone. If not then Rhine to Danube then to the Black Sea. These are all commercial routes so the depths are not such a problem as the central canal system in France which is in decline. French government spend available money on roads and neglect the canals.
Investigate starting in Nederlands then up the Rhine to the Rhine Rhone Canal then down the Rhone. If not then Rhine to Danube then to the Black Sea. These are all commercial routes so the depths are not such a problem as the central canal system in France which is in decline. French government spend available money on roads and neglect the canals.
Grehan
Well-Known Member
Neglect the canals? Not exactly - there's been a lot of money spent on them down here in Languedoc/Aquitaine. The Canal Marne a la Saone has also seen lots of money spent in the last couple of years. There are also big EC/FR plans to increase river freight, which is (apparently) better, environmentally. On the smaller canals it is the significant reduction in commercial traffic that has (often) led to depth problems. IMHO the VNF do a great job, on whole, all things considered, etc etc.
The notional available depth on the Loire/Centre canals and the Marne canals routes (i.e linking from the Seine to the Saone) is 1.8m - actual is a bit less in some places/at some times. Other canals are shallower.
The notional available depth on the Loire/Centre canals and the Marne canals routes (i.e linking from the Seine to the Saone) is 1.8m - actual is a bit less in some places/at some times. Other canals are shallower.
boatmike
Well-Known Member
I agree. My original French canal experience goes back 30 years and then they were indeed in a poor state. VNF established a toll (not quite sure when that started) to raise funds for maintainance which we all have to pay to pass through. Since then they have improved greatly and many smaller canals previously not passible are now open again. We need some sort of VNF in the UK to do the same over here!
BurnitBlue
Well-Known Member
I must admit that I have not been on ALL canals, but I have transited from North to South and back again three times. I have done this in both monohulls and catamarans. In fact I believe I was one of the first to transit in a multihull, back in the early 1970's.
What I remember on the last trip was missing bollards in the locks, no ladders, restricted lock opening times, reduced draft and vandalism.
Maybe it has improved somewhat lately but from what I recall it has not arrived back at the standard during the hey day of peniche usage.
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tabernacleman
Well-Known Member
Any advice out there on the MAXIMUM beam for a canal trip - probably from the Gironde to the med? Boat in Question is a Snowgoose Elite at 16'3" beam, I understand the narrowest structure is a bridge way down south.
Grehan
Well-Known Member
I think (hope) that the problems that BlueTwo found, as noted, would be unusual nowadays. Not to say there aren't snags and pitfalls and the sometimes wilfully inconsistent placement of bollards (to suit peniches, not smaller craft) from lock to lock would be one. But makes life interesting, we think.
Maximum nominal beam from Bordeaux to the Med would be 5.40m - however there is a relationship between height and width because all the bridges on the Midi (not the Canal de Garonne) are arched. Often reckoned to be the 'worst', Capestang, is neither the lowest nor the narrowest, but it does have a rather 'informal' arch shape that makes it a bit tricky. The lowest, as such, we reckon to be the two immediately east of Carcassonne, including the lock bridge outside the station there itself. For height/width/depth data, see http://www.tagweb.co.uk/grehan/-vnf-guide.html#map
There are plenty of cats that transit the Canal Entre des Mers - we saw a whopper called The Vamp from Savannah (UK reg) go through lock bridges (somewhat carefully) without incident.
Maximum nominal beam from Bordeaux to the Med would be 5.40m - however there is a relationship between height and width because all the bridges on the Midi (not the Canal de Garonne) are arched. Often reckoned to be the 'worst', Capestang, is neither the lowest nor the narrowest, but it does have a rather 'informal' arch shape that makes it a bit tricky. The lowest, as such, we reckon to be the two immediately east of Carcassonne, including the lock bridge outside the station there itself. For height/width/depth data, see http://www.tagweb.co.uk/grehan/-vnf-guide.html#map
There are plenty of cats that transit the Canal Entre des Mers - we saw a whopper called The Vamp from Savannah (UK reg) go through lock bridges (somewhat carefully) without incident.
Seah0rse
Well-Known Member
Thanks to all
As a new poster on the Forum I have just revisited my thread and pleasantly surprised to see all the responses. Thanks to you all.
It seems to me to be worth having a go but that I will need to choose my time of year - early spring after a nice wet winter! It seems the salt/freshwater bouyancy issue is not significant enough to make a notable difference. So I will look at unstepping the masts, travel light and maybe experiment with winching some large fenders below the water line!!!
If I get stuck, it sounds as if it is a very nice place to be stuck. Nothing ventured....
As a new poster on the Forum I have just revisited my thread and pleasantly surprised to see all the responses. Thanks to you all.
It seems to me to be worth having a go but that I will need to choose my time of year - early spring after a nice wet winter! It seems the salt/freshwater bouyancy issue is not significant enough to make a notable difference. So I will look at unstepping the masts, travel light and maybe experiment with winching some large fenders below the water line!!!
If I get stuck, it sounds as if it is a very nice place to be stuck. Nothing ventured....
Grehan
Well-Known Member
There's a current discussion going on on the LiveAboard forum on this topic.
Check out http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213910
Check out http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213910
boatmike
Well-Known Member
I have a Snowgoose Elite too. The maximum beam is in fact 5 metres exactly and was designed as such to comply with the maximum VNF published size. Locks themselves are 5.2 metres so its tight! As this maximum is at the centre of the boat at gunwale level, my own solution to fendering will be to heavily fender both forward and aft to just be proud of the gunwale rubber at the centre. It is also worth mentioning that some locks rise to a level that is below the gunwale so you also need to fender at the waterline where the tumblehome of the hull allows for a plank with soft fenders at either end. It's tight but possible and transits have been achieved by Elites but many have said you need to treat the rubber fender strip as "sacrificial". You can buy replacement rubber from Wilkes. I am intending to do it either next summer or summer following and already have "spare" rubber purchased ready to change at Port St Louis!