Freezer (domestic) ambient temp range ?

[VicS]

We are looking to buy a new freezer.

Chose one from Comet's website but then read :

16degrees C minimum ambient operating temperature
38degrees C maximum ambient operating temperature

i am rather puzzled by the minimum of 16C .. not a misprint as far as I can see. Its the same for several other models from the same manufacturer and agrees with the info on their own website.

Why a minimum temp which is so high.
We would be locating it in an unheated store where I doubt if the temperature gets up to 16C for a good part if the year, (although never falls to 0C probably never below 5C.)

Not all manufacturers give ambient operating temperature ranges . There's a wide variety of temperatures quoted by those that do.

Another possible on our list gives

-15 minimum ambient operating temperature
5 maximum ambient operating temperature

That's equally insane ....nobody ( except Eskimos ) surely installs a freezer where the ambient temperature is within those limits.

I must be missing something.

Anybody care to explain.

 

[CaptainBob]

Hi Vic. That's bonkers! You'd think logically the colder the ambient temperature the more effectively the refrigerant could get rid of the heat it had extracted from the cold side of the system - and that as it can cope at the temperature encountered on the cold side (without freezing or becoming too viscous for the pipework) then it could surely also cope in the pipes on the ambient side.

But I found this refrigeration engineering forum discussing this very topic and making some interesting suggestions as to the cause of possible problems...

http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?9387-Fridge-for-an-Outbuilding

 

[pvb]

Lots of these minimum ambient temperature recommendations are clearly excessively cautious, as the freezers will usually continue to work properly in lower temperatures. My only recommendation would be to avoid "budget" brands and pay more for a quality product.

We have a fridge/freezer in an unheated rear porch. It's a Siemens and it's 20 years old and still works fine all through the winter months. We also have an upright freezer in an unheated storeroom; it's a Bosch and also works fine in the winter.

Previously, we've had disappointments with a Hotpoint freezer which couldn't keep frozen food solid and so was rejected after a couple of weeks' use, and an Ocean freezer which died shortly after its warranty expired.

 

[lw395]

The only reason I can think of for a high minimum operating ambient is if it's auto defrost and it needs to be that warm for the water to evaporate...

 

[electrosys]

My money would be primarily on the crap thermostats still being used in Freezers. You'd have thought the industry would have embraced electronic control by now, rather than relying on old-fashioned pneumatic-mechanical switches.

The temperature specs may also have something to do with having a double winding motor, which requires an impulse start to get up and running. The motor housing contains refrigerant, which will be at ambient temp during switch-off, as that area of the freezer is uninsulated. Maybe the motor is fussy about it's starting and operating temperatures ?

And then of course, there's the whole 'cooling inside, heating outside' thermal relationship - maybe the calculations for efficiency have been determined by someone sitting at a desk with a slide rule, who hasn't been outside in the real world for quite a few weeks ...

 

[the_branflake]

And then of course, there's the whole 'cooling inside, heating outside' thermal relationship - maybe the calculations for efficiency have been determined by someone sitting at a desk with a slide rule, who hasn't been outside in the real world for quite a few weeks ...

That would be my thinking too - I bet to get the A/AA/AAA star rating it needs to operate in a particular range. Outside this it could run slightly more maybe and then it may drop a band.

 

[VicS]

I have done a bit of Googling and reading on this now

The problem seems to be due the refrigerant that is used now that CFCs have been banned.
Hence 20 year old appliances working satisfactorily in unheated outbuildings etc.... Our first one was in a brick shed detached from the house. Our current one is nearly 24 years old and worked quite satisfactorily in an unheated garage but the current version of it is only suitable for a minimum temperature of 10C.

I don't know the reasons yet but it seems that the replacement refrigerants are not suitable for use at low ambient temperatures.

I'm now looking at the Beko range some of which are suitable for use anywhere between -15C and 32 C. Developed so that people can use them in unheated garages etc

I don't need something that will operate down to -15C but if I'm about to spend several hundreds of pounds I do need to be sure that it will work properly down to around 5C.

(Heating the little store where it will be located I suppose is a possibility, but I'd rather not. )

I fear the temperature limitation is something not widely publicised although well known by the manufacturers

Im afraid that "budget pensions" only run to "budget appliances", not that paying £1100 for a Smeg, for example, necessarily guarantees that it will be suitable for low ambient temperature operation. It might impress the neighbours but if it wont work in our unheated store it's not going to be much good for anything else.



I have now found this

Climate class

Now every freezer has a ‘climate class’ this tells you a range of temperatures that the freezer can cope with.

In the UK the two most likely ones that you will come across are N class and SN class. The N class models must not be used in rooms that get colder than 16C and with the SN class models they must not be used at room temperatures below 10C. But both work effectively in room temperatures up to 32C. There are other classes that you may see are ST and T. The ST models work well at between 18C and 38C, with the T models between 18C and 43C.​

Still does not cover the temperature range of an unheated garage or outbuilding!

 

[JustMelfort]

I have a Beko 'frost free' upright freezer and was told to keep it somewhere warm (not in a garage). This hasn't been possible in all the places we've lived over the last 8 years - probably on 5th rented house now. Anyway, the freezer works brilliantly when indoors and normally just as well in the garage except during the winter. About once a year it packs in when outside and won't restart for 24 hrs following a thorough defrost.

After some investigation, its because the frost free system needs a warm exterior to dump the moisture. As someone has pointed out, the water freezes in the wrong place and the system shuts down. Even when it look fully defrosted, until the ice has gone in the inside of the frost free system (which you can't see) the freezer won't start. The dampness of the garage just makes matters worse. As I say though, in warm weather or inside the house it work perfectly and I like the Beko product - just need to RTFM!

If keeping the freezer outside, I would now buy a less 'clever' product, or one designed to take the likely temp range. Thanks for the new info on Climat Class.

 

[pvb]

Beko has a range of freezers which they claim will work down to -15C. "Which?" magazine has a feature on them here. Confusingly, the Beko manuals give the climate class as SN.

The Climate Class minimum ambient temperatures are, I still believe, excessively cautious, and are geared towards maintaining low energy consumption levels and avoiding condensation damage to electronics. Bosch and Liebherr, for example, despite quoting SN class (minimum ambient +10C), say their products will work down to +5C.

 

[VicS]

Beko has a range of freezers which they claim will work down to -15C. "Which?" magazine has a feature on them here. Confusingly, the Beko manuals give the climate class as SN.

The Climate Class minimum ambient temperatures are, I still believe, excessively cautious, and are geared towards maintaining low energy consumption levels and avoiding condensation damage to electronics. Bosch and Liebherr, for example, despite quoting SN class (minimum ambient +10C), say their products will work down to +5C.

Beko's website gives -15C as the minimum temperature for all the models that are of interest ( between 7 and 8 cuft gross capacity)

One model that is of interest is £100 heaper in Currys than in Comet. What d' you reckon? see if Comet will match the price. I dont think I want to go to Currys (I think their security people have my photo pinned up after the last disagreement with them so I might not get in the door anyway )

 

[pvb]

Beko's website gives -15C as the minimum temperature for all the models that are of interest ( between 7 and 8 cuft gross capacity)

One model that is of interest is £100 heaper in Currys than in Comet. What d' you reckon? see if Comet will match the price. I dont think I want to go to Currys (I think their security people have my photo pinned up after the last disagreement with them so I might not get in the door anyway )

Worth seeing if Comet will price match. If not, Sainsburys have it online for £235 with free delivery.

 

[VicS]

Worth seeing if Comet will price match. If not, Sainsburys have it online for £235 with free delivery.

Well spotted.

 

[jwilson]

We are looking to buy a new freezer.

Chose one from Comet's website but then read :

16degrees C minimum ambient operating temperature
38degrees C maximum ambient operating temperature

i am rather puzzled by the minimum of 16C .. not a misprint as far as I can see. Its the same for several other models from the same manufacturer and agrees with the info on their own website.

Why a minimum temp which is so high.
We would be locating it in an unheated store where I doubt if the temperature gets up to 16C for a good part if the year, (although never falls to 0C probably never below 5C.)

Not all manufacturers give ambient operating temperature ranges . There's a wide variety of temperatures quoted by those that do.

Another possible on our list gives

-15 minimum ambient operating temperature
5 maximum ambient operating temperature

That's equally insane ....nobody ( except Eskimos ) surely installs a freezer where the ambient temperature is within those limits.

I must be missing something.

Anybody care to explain.

I had a new chest freezer that lasted months before the electronics died - manufacturer absolutely refused to fix under warranty as it was located in an unheated outbuilding - in quite warm coastal Cornwall. The old and rather more primitive one it replaced had lasted 10 years, but the new one reallly disliked coool ambient temperatures. As the location (outhouse) was outside the design spec I had to bite the quite expensive bullet.

 

[VicS]

I had a new chest freezer that lasted months before the electronics died - manufacturer absolutely refused to fix under warranty as it was located in an unheated outbuilding - in quite warm coastal Cornwall. The old and rather more primitive one it replaced had lasted 10 years, but the new one reallly disliked coool ambient temperatures. As the location (outhouse) was outside the design spec I had to bite the quite expensive bullet.

That's the sort of thing I want to avoid.