Fountaine Pajot catamarns

[MAURICE]

I have hired a 45' cat in Greece for two weeks and was interested to see how it would handle. The boat is two years old and looked in reasonable condition. However i was disappointed in how it sailed. You have to constantly adjust the steering both under sail and when motoring. This boat has both the rudders in front of the screws instead of behind. Does anybody know the reason for this?

 

[Neeves]

If you had wanted to see how the vessel could handle you could simply have gone for a test sail. That's what we did when we bought (our catamaran), we also took one on charter.

My guess is - it increases the accommodation.

My other guess is most people charter (or buy) a catamaran for its spacious accomodation. If you want performance there are compromises.

When we raced our yacht we were constant tweaking the helm - it had something to do with the wind tweaking. The other option is to tweak the trim of the sails. Neither are something that are high on the priority list if you are on holiday

Jonathan

 

[Supertramp]

To stop orca attacks?

Some modern catamarans have their rudders well inboard from the transom. Perhaps it helps turning in marinas? The conventional and effective prop ahead of rudder is not so necessary with twin engines and independent controls.

 

[Neeves]

To stop orca attacks?

Some modern catamarans have their rudders well inboard from the transom. Perhaps it helps turning in marinas? The conventional and effective prop ahead of rudder is not so necessary with twin engines and independent controls.

Agree

I was thinking of this - with twin props and a bit of practice you can, or we can, turn a cat around through 360 degrees in its own boat length without touching the helm.

Jonathan

 

[dankilb]

I do think it’s mainly (solely?) so they can stick the engines in the very aft most bit of the hulls (and maximise accommodation as suggested). Don’t you even access them from the swim platform on some models?

 

[Neeves]

Its not an uncommon location for the engines. I have never heard of anyone complaining. Engine installation on multihulls is 'difficult' because the hulls are so narrow wherever they are installed. Or maybe I should re-phrase that - installation is easy - doing any work on the installed engine depends youth and suppleness. The complaint I might make is that all the weight is in the end - but this is never mentioned as a disadvantage by owners of such vessels with that installation - which might be indicative of the people who buy such multihulls - they don't care about trim and weight in the ends. etc. Wait aft is a common issue with multihulls as in addition to the engines sometimes being located 'right' aft the tender is the hoisted on davits with O/B compounding any issues.

Our engines are forward of the rudders and access from one is through a hatch at the top of the transom steps the other is under the aft berth. In both cases there is no easy side access, you need lie on top of the engine to get at the oil filter and there is no access aft on one and forward on the other - so again you need to lie on the top of the engine to access the dip stick for the sail drive. Oddly (dictated to allow squeezing in of the accomodation) - one engine is behind the sail drive (full sized domestic 2 person shower and head immediately forward) the other in front (aft berth on top) with the trim balanced by the location of the battery bank.

One facet that cannot be ignored - the props might be left and right handed - which means you must keep a note of which is which as you cannot swap them round - or all the engine controls are back to front - guess how we know.

Prop wash over the rudders is simply a non issues - multis are so manoeuvrable - despite their intimidating size,

Jonathan

 

[dankilb]

Indeed. I think it’s a neat and enviable location (apart from the side access issue, as above…). Getting the engine out looks a dream compared to our mono, where somehow it has to be manhandled and craned out through the companionway without damage to people or property!

 

[MAURICE]

I just found that this cat was very twitchy compared to my Moody. The benefit of the prop wash i understand is not an issue with twin engines. but when sailing a couple of times i needed to use full helm to keep the boat on track. Don't think I'm a supporter of cats

 

[Neeves]

I just found that this cat was very twitchy compared to my Moody. The benefit of the prop wash i understand is not an issue with twin engines. but when sailing a couple of times i needed to use full helm to keep the boat on track. Don't think I'm a supporter of cats

You are in good company - many people don't like cats - but then some people like fin keel and others long keels - it takes all sorts. Different designs and builds have different performance focus and are built for different markets. Many people don't have a need for speed .

You would not take your run of the mill Ford car off road and Defender would be a bit OTT if you want to use it for the school run and the supermarket shop. Why do you expect a yacht primarily designed for the charter market to behave like a Outremer, Catana or a Nautitech.

We can eat at the saloon table on passage using bone china and no gimbles in sight (not even on the stove). I can make porridge at the galley hitting 14 knots under autopilot. You don't like cats - sad, you do not know what you are missing.

Needing full helm is sometimes an issue of poor sail trim. We raced, with some success, our previous 10m yacht - trimming sails become second nature.

We have sailed 100nm in 10 hours, full cruising weight, 500l of water 200l of diesel, full freezer and fridge, tender + OB, 2 kayaks, 2 bikes etc etc for a 3 month extended stay in an isolated area (SW Tasmania) - not bad for a 38' yacht with one on deck, one off watch. We have not pushed the envelope - our maxim speed has be 16 knots but a sister yacht hit 21 knots (with full crew)

There are cats and cats.

Try a Schionning, Grainger for one offs or (ours) Lightwave 38 - a semi production.



Jonathan

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I just found that this cat was very twitchy compared to my Moody. The benefit of the prop wash i understand is not an issue with twin engines. but when sailing a couple of times i needed to use full helm to keep the boat on track. Don't think I'm a supporter of cats

As Neeves says, you cannot judge a complete category of boats by one experience. A bit like going on a Pogo and saying you don’t like monohulls. Fontaine Pajot last made a decent boat about 1992, in my book, and been going down a path I don’t enjoy ever since.

 

[Neeves]

Maurice

I have some sympathy for your experience.

Catamarans are largely built for the charter market where bums in beds is the route to success (for the charter company and the builder). The individuals who charter the cats are looking for a holiday with wife and kids or friends and sailing performance is not really that high on the agenda - having all 8 bodies on one vessel is the priority (and good weather)

The builder meets these expectations - and they stay in business.

There is a small sector of the industry that caters for the individual buyer who does want performance.

The catamarans then reach the end of their charterability (they get old) and they are then sold - sometimes to people who think they are buying a Porsche 4 x 4 but its really not a 4 x 4, at all - it really is a floating caravan - these people have a disappointing experience.

I don't know if Catanas or Outremers are found in charter fleets but if you were to reconsider - have a test sail. Chalk and cheese.

But

You can load up a Lagoon or a FP and you will not impact its performance, very much. Load up a performance cat (and it is so easy - there is sooooo much space) - and it will perform like a dog. But load up a Pogo (I'm guessing - it too will perform like a dog)

If you want a multi with performance look at what Chiara's Slave sails - she will knock spots of our Lightwave - but then he does not carry a bread maker and being a wimp the speeds would scare me . More important his shower is not big enough for 2

You need to decide where the compromises are going to be.

Jonathan

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Shower? Just stand on the lee ama. We may go catamaran in the future, for us it would be a Dazcat, almost certainly. Room for 2 in the shower there, and almost Dragonfly like performance.