Fortress size for kedge

NormanS said:
I don't see how knowing the actual figure for surface area helps one little bit.
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I think it is one of the basic parameters of an anchor, like the sail area of yacht. A little like sail area, it is helpful information, but I agree it is only one important figure. The depth of bury, geometry of the flukes ability to set quickly, cope with multiple substrates and to rotate well is vital an ultimately more important

It is of relevance to the thread because it has been suggested that the "large" surface area of the Fortress means it sets less deeply. The first step is deciding if this is a factor is knowing the surface area relative to other anchors. It would be nice to know this basic information.
 
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I think the basic differences in anchors is design:)

I think Fortress in their tests in Chesapeake Bay demonstrated that having a focus on surface area is simply too misleading. The Danforth with its fluke at 32 degrees was markedly out performed by a similarly sized Fortress with its fluke at 45 degrees, ostensibly similar designs. Comparing surface area - they should perform the same :)? Similarly sized roll bar anchors performed factorially differently in the same tests and the Ultra markedly out performed the similarly sized Spade. Small differences in design appear to have a big differences, totally out of proportion, on performance. Their tests demonstrated the superiority of Fortress in mud, outperforming anything else - so in addition to JumbleDuck's original idea of using the Fortress as a kedge he will also gain superior holding ability in mud (and I'm guessing - soft sand) - but the bigger Fortress would be better than the smaller in mud.

I think the use of the words, 'large' surface area, is a reflection on size (or surface area) vs weight - and is another way of saying 'weight is not everything'.

It goes back to the adage - anchors are a compromise, carry and be able to use more than one anchor and carry different designs. Really this is what JumbleDuck is doing - he has identified the advantage of the Fortress in certain situations. But in terms of surface area vs weight Fortress have no competition, if you are weight conscious the Fortress cannot be beaten and if you realise the advantage of being able to dinghy an anchor to steady the yacht to stop it veering or want to set a kedge then a Fortress is the natural answer. You cannot focus on surface area and forget, or down play, the fact a Fortress for the same surface area is about half the weight of a steel model, has the variable fluke angle, is demountable etc

But on surface area - how do you measure. Its easy with a Fortress, you measure the flukes and crown add them together (subtract the area of the protruding stock?) - easy. A Rocna, not too difficult, but do you subtract the surface area of the roll bar that is a definite hindrance to setting. It would need checking and I'm working from a poor memory - but I measured a Rocna and Mantus roll bar - it was 10% of the fluke surface area What do you do about the thickened toe plate on the Rocna - it cannot be as 'useful' as the thin flukes of the Fortress or the thinner fluke of the Mantus. What do you do with the almost vertical 'wings' of a Bruce, do you measure surface area or do you measure the area it projects - its not that easy and ignoring roll bars would be questionable (but I am sure is ignored by those that quote surface area (so much for the data being useful). Then, as the chain is driven into the seabed along with the shackle end the size of chain needs to be thought through - as an anchor using 8mm chain will perform better than the same anchor using 10mm chain (and, say, a swivel).


I would not want anyone to read Noelex last sentence without qualification (especially as it was I that raised the issue). Noelex appear to have emphasised one part of my ramblings without the other.

The comment on a Fortress not setting as deeply needs to be put in context - I qualified my statement by suggesting that possible setting and then using the Fortress with a very long length of 'elastic' nylon (a mixed rode) meant it was not subject to the same load as the steel anchor which might have been set under all chain and then used with a much shorter length of nylon (snubber). Possibly the more shallow set of the Fortress is simply an indication of the benefit of nylon in reducing load on the anchor. I have not made a true comparison. We use the Fortress as a primary (all chain) in mud, but cannot see the set. We use the Fortress in a 'V' but our steel anchor will be set on all chain and our Fortress on chain and upto 30 or 40m of nylon. When I made the comment I made the prime error of many - I am not comparing like with like - but I did qualify my initial statement.

With best wishes to you all for Christmas.

Jonathan
 
We need Robin to confirm some of this :)

Both Vyv and I have found that if you want to buy something from America most retailers want to send exclusively by courier and often the courier cost is so high that the purchase becomes a non-starter. I use, if I can persuade the retailer, US Post. They will send air parcel, it takes about 10 days door to door for Oz. The system is trackable (and maybe if you pay extra - insurable). It used to cost US$50 for their maximum, of 20lb. I think this might have increased to $60 (but the same paltry maximum). But for some items 20lb is more than adequate and $60 makes it a sensible alternative (to buying local). Here we are not charged GST (VAT to you) for items under $1000 (though I think that is set to change).

Fortress were selling some reconditioned models, through Defender I recall, which were sent back to Fortress after the recent BP oil spill. I don't know what size, or if they are all sold nor whether Defender will ship US Post.

We have the same issues in Oz. I looked at an Airmar unit and could buy it for just under US$1,000 in America - it cost over US$2,000 here. I queried the retailed here as to how many they sold - he told me none (what a surprise!).

Jonathan
 
Well the UK will add import duty and VAT to any imports though generally I found reasonable amounts ( say sub 100 gbp) passed through unchallenged when I ordered stuff from the UK from US suppliers. I bought my Fortress FX11 years ago from West Marine and carried it back to the UK in my hold luggage or possibly my golf bag. It was then shipped back to the USA with the rest of our personal possessions when we moved here to live in 2012. NOT sure how dealers ship from here for export but I know my son prefers UPS when he has odered from the US for delivery to the UK. We send stuff by USPS ( US postal service) and they have some fixed price deals based on a package size or weight as in if it fits it goes for $x, big dealers may not bother checking this option however .
 
As you suggest, Robin, there's a degree of variation. I've also found that smaller items sent USPS often slip through the net, but VAT/duty seems always to be levied (where applicable) by the likes of DHL and FedEx.

The actual rules are:
VAT: payable on goods valued over £15 (but over £36 in the case of gifts; over £0 for booze, tobacco, fragrances).
Customs duty: payable, usually at 2.5%, unless the value of the duty is less than £9.
There are also additional duties, of course, for booze and tobacco.
Source: https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

The link gives the staggering figure of £27.66 of Spirit Duty per litre of pure alcohol (= about £6.50 per 70cl bottle of 70 proof).

I digress, but it's at least a logical lead in to...
...cheers, all! Have a merry one.
 
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