Formica worktop

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I'm making the new galley worktop out of marine ply with formica bonded to both sides. Is it a good idea to seal the edges or leave them to breathe? They are covered by trim so won't be on view.
 
Formica will bubble it moisture gets behind it and swells the wood. The edges have to be mechanically held down with fiddles. Or the sink would hold it down (but use a sealant)

The alternative is to roll the formica around the edge of the bench-top but that requires powerful presses and is a specialists job

View attachment 47114
 
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When I formica-ed my galley using bonding glue, water ingress got around the tap bases
and sink rim, resulting in the formica going black and lifting

It lasted about 5 years before this happened, so cant complain

Have rebuilt my galley worktop again with formica but using Epoxy glue this time
in the wet area

I have also sealed the ply edges with Epoxy glue

Fingers crossed
 
forelle541 said:
You Formica both sides to balance the movement of the worktop, if you only cover one side it might curl a bit.
Click to expand...

I don't follow that observation (I don't disagree with it :) ) If the substrate ply is dimensionally stable, it will not bend through a range of temperatures, This stability can be increased by supporting timber as stretchers or edging.

The laminate, substrate, and backing sheet must be conditioned to minimize possible shrinking, or expansion. Typically we have an installation clause defining the conditioning period as at least 48 hours free access (not stacked) between 21 and 25C, and 45 to 60% rel humidity. If all components are given this treatment, it is very unlikely that warping will occur.


I can't find the data sheets on the coefficient of thermal expansion of formica and similar phenolic sheets, but will dig it out later.
 
sarabande said:
I don't follow that observation (I don't disagree with it :) ) If the substrate ply is dimensionally stable, it will not bend through a range of temperatures, This stability can be increased by supporting timber as stretchers or edging.

The laminate, substrate, and backing sheet must be conditioned to minimize possible shrinking, or expansion. Typically we have an installation clause defining the conditioning period as at least 48 hours free access (not stacked) between 21 and 25C, and 45 to 60% rel humidity. If all components are given this treatment, it is very unlikely that warping will occur.


I can't find the data sheets on the coefficient of thermal expansion of formica and similar phenolic sheets, but will dig it out later.
Click to expand...

It is very well known by trained woodworkers that it is always essential to back Formica on plywood, and presumably any other relatively thin timber, with Formica of a similar size. I recall my brother, who is a joiner/cabinet maker, telling me this 50 years ago. My sole boards, in 18 mm ply, are formica faced, all backed except for one. This one has bowed over the years and is now proud of all the rest by about 3 mm. One winter a few years ago I supported the ends of this board on timber and left all my chain and anchor in a drum in the middle. After four or five months the effect was zero, still just as bowed as before.
 
Just doing my sink surrounds with Corian, totally waterproof and ideal for the job. Commonly used in high end kitchens and bathrooms not cheap but ok if you can source some offcuts. Its a 12mm thick acrylic based material that works well with a router. Lots of info if you google.
 
coopec said:
Why not use 10mm ply? That wouldn't curl.
Click to expand...

I had some cherry-faced ply specially made for a new bulkhead in Ariam - all the other wood is cherry (either solid or faced ply), but it seems nobody in the UK sells cherry-faced ply any more, only MDF.

Anyway, the point is that it was good quality 12mm ply and the company applying the veneer insisted that it must have a "balancer" on the other side, essentially a cheap veneer that doesn't look pretty, to prevent it bending.

Pete
 
sarabande said:
I don't follow that observation (I don't disagree with it :) ) If the substrate ply is dimensionally stable, it will not bend through a range of temperatures, This stability can be increased by supporting timber as stretchers or edging.

The laminate, substrate, and backing sheet must be conditioned to minimize possible shrinking, or expansion. Typically we have an installation clause defining the conditioning period as at least 48 hours free access (not stacked) between 21 and 25C, and 45 to 60% rel humidity. If all components are given this treatment, it is very unlikely that warping will occur.


I can't find the data sheets on the coefficient of thermal expansion of formica and similar phenolic sheets, but will dig it out later.
Click to expand...

Have a look at all the plywood samples you can find. How many of them have odd numbers of plys? How many even? They are all odd numbers, even on the lowest quality stuff. That's because whatever's in the middle needs something on either side of it to prevent warping. So, if you add Formica to one side, you've got to add something similar to the other side.
 
vyv_cox said:
It is very well known by trained woodworkers that it is always essential to back Formica on plywood, and presumably any other relatively thin timber, with Formica of a similar size. I recall my brother, who is a joiner/cabinet maker, telling me this 50 years ago. My sole boards, in 18 mm ply, are formica faced, all backed except for one. This one has bowed over the years and is now proud of all the rest by about 3 mm. One winter a few years ago I supported the ends of this board on timber and left all my chain and anchor in a drum in the middle. After four or five months the effect was zero, still just as bowed as before.
Click to expand...
The sink on Storyline is surrounded by faded Formica and I was planning on just sticking another sheet over the top of the existing one so as to avoid having to remove the sink and even more significantly the wood trim at the front which is screwed and plugged. Although I realise that this will not result in a perfect job by any means do you think I have any chance of it lasting a few years before failing ? (plan to seal edges of Formica with epoxy).
 
S
Storyline said:
The sink on Storyline is surrounded by faded Formica and I was planning on just sticking another sheet over the top of the existing one so as to avoid having to remove the sink and even more significantly the wood trim at the front which is screwed and plugged. Although I realise that this will not result in a perfect job by any means do you think I have any chance of it lasting a few years before failing ? (plan to seal edges of Formica with epoxy).
Click to expand...

You are asking the wrong person I'm afraid, I don't pretend to be a woodwork expert. I would think there is a good chance it will be OK but my opinion isn't worth much on this subject. I have fitted out several vans and boats with Formica tops, always used contact adhesive and put strips of the same stuff on the edges. Make sure you chamfer the corners across both pieces so that there is no protruding edge that can be caught by anything.
 
Storyline said:
The sink on Storyline is surrounded by faded Formica and I was planning on just sticking another sheet over the top of the existing one so as to avoid having to remove the sink and even more significantly the wood trim at the front which is screwed and plugged. Although I realise that this will not result in a perfect job by any means do you think I have any chance of it lasting a few years before failing ? (plan to seal edges of Formica with epoxy).
Click to expand...

Did just this in our galley about 5 yrs ago, as we had some surplus formica from my in laws. It is still looking good today, with no signs of bending or it lifting. Unfortunately I can't remember what type of glue I used, and I certainly didn't do the underside as well!
 
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