Ford Sabre 212 hp diesel engines......how smokey?

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NealB

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I've read that these engines are 'embarrassing'.

I realise this may be (very?) difficult to quantify and describe, but just how dirty are they?

If I bought a boat fitted with twins, would I soon become known as 'Nealnomates' (the least popular man in the marina )?

Is it just when they start from cold, and does it soon clear when warmed up? Or are they always pumping out smoke?

Can anything be done to improve things?

Any views on these engines in general would be very useful: reliability, longevity, spares availability and cost......anything!

Thanks.
 
The Dorset block variants are chronic smokers at idle, warm or cold. Dover blocks are better.

Proper nuclear winter fog bank stuff. Full on cant see a thing smoke.

Worse that Muckyfarter.

I knew of a boat that was so bad that the pier master at gun wharf thought she was on fire!

I think Lancing marine sell a de-smoke kit that drops the idle down to 3 pots which makes a big improvement.

Otherwise, note no support from Sabre anymore, but Mermaid will give excellent service if you need help as will many others. Generally pretty tough and reliable.
 
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Proper nuclear winter fog bank stuff. Full on cant see a thing smoke.

Worse that Muckyfarter.

I knew of a boat that was so bad that the pier master at gun wharf thought she was on fire!



[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Ben!

As this is so important to me, now I've stopped laughing, can I just double check that you're in deadpan serious mode rather than in hyperbolic overdrive?

Thanks again!
 
Deadpan....

The Dorset block motors really are that bad....

Worse in fact.

I'd still have them. Good solid motor.

I'd rather have some smoke than outdrive egg whisks, EDC common rail, multivalve superturbo charging etc.

There is nothing to go wrong.

They improve massively when put underload, the Fairey boat owners either make sure the lines are tight and pop them into gear, or they untie, jump on, fire up and go in one swift movement (which is what I do with my old Perks in winter).

Its only really and idling under no load issue.
 
Though these engines do smoke they should clear once warmed up.

In my experience I have found that the smoking is caused by injectors needing attention, this wont cure the inherent design fault but it will help.

If you need a manual I my be able to help, let me know (PM)!

Tom
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Proper nuclear winter fog bank stuff. Full on cant see a thing smoke.

Worse that Muckyfarter.

I knew of a boat that was so bad that the pier master at gun wharf thought she was on fire!



[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Ben!

As this is so important to me, now I've stopped laughing, can I just double check that you're in deadpan serious mode rather than in hyperbolic overdrive?

Thanks again!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ben's right, had one in my previous boat, always worst on a cold damp morning but soon cleared to a good mist rather than blanket fog. When warm, vitually no smoke.
 
If a bit of smoke is OK at the Squadron, it's probably ok anywhere:

DSCN0107.jpg

DSCN0108.jpg


I think the post on the corner was originally white. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
I've read that these engines are 'embarrassing'.

I realise this may be (very?) difficult to quantify and describe, but just how dirty are they?

If I bought a boat fitted with twins, would I soon become known as 'Nealnomates' (the least popular man in the marina )?

Is it just when they start from cold, and does it soon clear when warmed up? Or are they always pumping out smoke?

Can anything be done to improve things?

Any views on these engines in general would be very useful: reliability, longevity, spares availability and cost......anything!

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would love to tell you how you can improve things but I think you are unlikely to take my advice.Try hoisting a sail & experience a completely new world /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
There isnt much you can do, due to low compression pistons these engines smoke when cold and at idle, the smoke should go when up to 80 degree c and under load, the 3 piston running is a good move unless you can budget the purchase and fit a nice pair of new engines!
 
I've sailed since the 1960's, thanks.

I've got: a 34 foot Comanche catamaran, a Laser, a Graduate, a Tinker Tramp with rig, a 9 foot Seahopper and a 9 foot lugger.

Do you think I need more?
 
We have a pair of 180's circa 1973, yes they do smoke on start up, but in the manual Sabre advise single up mooring ropes start engines and bugger off quick. As soon as they are under load they clear up quick, and when warm and thrashed they are great, you will not be able to wear them out unless you deprive them of oil and water, I have also got a pair of 212's waiting in the wings should the day arrive when they tell me enough is enough. So to conclude unless and until there is a MOT smoke test for boats, the yotties who pass by as we start waving away the fumes innefectualy will have to put up with it, ours will continue to propel our Aquabell. The photo shows engines under severe load this will not happen unless you really try, i.e 0-60 in 3 seconds.
 
Come on Ben,

You are young enough not to to deny progress be an old stick in the mud.

Common rail is progress, quiet, sociable with real performance.

Fords are old slugs in a planing hull, you put the hammer down and wait for the turbos to kick in junk old CAV low pressure fuel pumps to get their act together, and low compression pistons, you could roll a fag before they start to hum.

And starting up in somewhere like Darthaven under the quay leaving your neighbours clothing stinking of unburned diesel is neither smart or particularly friendly. Not to mention the built in oil leaks.

My advise is any boat with Dorsets HAS to be a potential re-power even in a Fairey boat. They deserve better.

I have two pairs of good running take out 212's, five years ago they would have been in demand, these days no interest as life has moved on.
 
I just love how the 'raggies' come in with their barbed attack on Mobo issues, and then bid a hasty retreat! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Unfortunately for them, the engine issue is very much a real problem. Referred to as the 'auxillery' means of propulsion, but as the realists understand, more the general means of propulsion, often used to sit below the cockpit sole as a blob of rust, with glazed bores from lack of desire to use fuel. Surely the old necessary evil.

Over the years, yacht manufacturers have buckled to the demands of the modern yacht owner who demand more horsepower in their more sophisticated machines. Big gensets to run all the gadgetery, or cruise alternators off the main.
Compare the H.P. in a new yacht to one built 20 years ago, same length etc.

Some may even be so bold as to infer the modern yachtie might becoming 'soft' with the increasing development of pilot-house craft, with twin station steering and large covered cockpit awnings, with small clear panels in case someone goes silly and wants to put up a sail!
All sheet lines back to the cockpit, electric hydraulic furling systems. Whatever happened to going up on the foredeck to change a headsail in waist deep water!

It only seemed like yesterday when these hardy soles in their oil-skins and pipes, were out in all weathers, sailing on and off the moorings, ah...... the good old days! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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