Ford 1.8 Marinised diesel starting problems.

skipper_stu said:
Hmm, my MD22 is DIRECT injection and starts easily without the glow plugs!
Written by an engineer with 55 years of ICE experience!
S
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:confused:

I thought that was the point, The 1.8 Ford XLD is indirect injection and doesn't start easily without glowplugs when cold

Or are you just engaging in another of your little boy style pissing over the wall contests .


Written by geriatric who can barely avoid pissing on his slippers .
 
Thanks lots of interesting advice there.... I have a set of glow plugs ready to fit .... So will do it see what happens..
Sto solenoid was another area I thought possible...
However the perplexing bit was the change from one day to next...Will follow advice offered and report back...probably in a few weeks time

Cheers
Rich
 
Having a XLD 1.6 from 1987 fitted to Ronhilda have read this thread with interest Totally agree these engines need glowplugs. They need to be on for at least 20secs I am sure I am not the only one who remembers in the 70s the Ford Escort posti vans with Postman Pat jumping in and the engine labouring to start because he had turned the key straight to start.

So keep it simple and check the plugs are drawing current on your ammeter or start the engine on domestic bank an see if the lights dim on glow plug. Also check the relay thermostat has no weakened and you get enough heating time. Puff of white smoke could be due to injectors not firing at first if glow plugs no on log enough.

XLDs are very reliable, I last replaced my glow plugs 10 years ago and the injectors are still the original ones. Engine still starts well enough.

Brian
 
skipper_stu said:
Hmm, my MD22 is DIRECT injection and starts easily without the glow plugs!
Written by an engineer with 55 years of ICE experience!
S
Click to expand...

Generally, older diesels of that era only had glow plugs if they were indirect injection such as BMC 1.5 and 2.2 as did the Ford 1.6 and 1.8 All of these engines had high compression ratios in the order of 23 to 1. Perkins Indirect injection engines which were 22 to 1 used Thermostarts which bunt a little fuel in the inlet manifold

Direct injection engines again of that era such as BMC 3.8 etc had lower compression ratios of around 17 to 1 ish and no glow plugs which were started usually with excess full rack setting.

To give an example. my old Direct Injection Perkins/Rolls Royce V12 ( 1000 HP at 1500 rpm) with a capacity of 56 litres and a low compression ratio of 14.5 to 1 started on the button and did not have glow plugs or any form of cold start other than a wide open excess fuel setting for starting. Didn't half throw out a lot of smoke when it started :) Not a marina friendly engine but my engine was in a 1000 Kw generator.

My experience of all of these engines is that none of the indirect engines would cold start without glow plugs or Thermostarts and that is based of mucking around in boats with knackered engine for 60 years
 
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third engines said:
Beware it will still spark if totally or partially shorted to earth. The only reliable method is to compare resistances individually or as a set after calculating the resistance in parallel. Note this a different calculation than series resistance which is the sum of all.
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The spark is the whole point - no spark the current isn't going to earth and the glow plug is useless - if it sparks its good , quick easy test without going down the route of meters and inconclusive tests using equipment a layman may not have.

If you cant ventilate the engine room sufficiently remove the glow plugs and check them in a vice using jumper cables and a spare battery
 
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Engine manufacturers fit glow plugs for a wider temperature range of engine operations.

ALL our Work boats, even ones fitted with new generation engines with common rail fuel systems have some form of preheat systems fitted for Artic operations
 
ribrage said:
The spark is the whole point - no spark the current isn't going to earth and the glow plug is useless - if it sparks its good ,
You appear not to fully understand this. My point that having seen a plug that when removed from the engine was physically burnt out but the end of the internal element was welded to the casing thus presenting a circuit and capable of producing a spark but useless for task.
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Although I agree that flashing a spark on the plug doesn't prove absolutely that it is OK, let's not start fighting - too much of that already. The OP has already decided to replace the plugs and others can read the posts and act accordingly. Incidentally, plugs do seem to suffer degraded performance with age (don't we all? ). I have a Mitsubishi based Sole Mini-14 which was reluctant on colder days. Both plugs were working but changing them had the old girl firing again in seconds.

Rob.
 
third engines said:
ribrage said:
The spark is the whole point - no spark the current isn't going to earth and the glow plug is useless - if it sparks its good ,
You appear not to fully understand this. My point that having seen a plug that when removed from the engine was physically burnt out but the end of the internal element was welded to the casing thus presenting a circuit and capable of producing a spark but useless for task.
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wow - did you get any pictures.
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Interesting, I had exactly the same experience this summer with my Lancing 1.8 XLD. I assumed it was glow plugs, but when I tested current flow to the plugs ( I have a DC clamp-on meter) I discovered that my previous "15 count" was too long, and that if I counted to 10 between ign on and start it was fine... Of course, that hasn't explained why it's changed. The scary bit is seeing a 40 Amp drain in that phase
 
Hi Larry
Where did you get time to count from?In the handbook for Ford Escort 1.8 engine it says 6 I think , saying longer burns out the plugs.My engine changed very suddenly as well!
 
Can we just clarify something to sort out all this indirect / direct and glow plugs argument.
There's clearly a lot of misunderstanding about them, regardless of how many years experience you've got.

Older diesels were indirect injection. They all had, and needed glow plugs for cold start.
Then came early direct injection. They don't need glow plugs to start, they use excess fuel.
Then came emissions regs.
To meet cold start emissions, direct injection diesel engines were fitted with glow plugs. NOT TO HELP THEM START, but so they don't smoke when first started up.
And that is why modern car diesels don't smoke from cold.
 
I've got a Volvo Penta MD1, it has no glow plugs and uses excess fuel to start from cold so I'm guessing direct injection but I wouldn't describe it as new tech being made in 1967.
 
ghostlymoron said:
I've got a Volvo Penta MD1, it has no glow plugs and uses excess fuel to start from cold so I'm guessing direct injection but I wouldn't describe it as new tech being made in 1967.
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There is a word of difference between the original direct injection diesels of yesteryear and the products being designed and manufactured today.

But, going back to indirect injection diesel engines first, many of these were in fact modified petrol engines, the smallest being the Morris 1000 A series which was a standard block with modified pistons and a diesel head with a CAV rotary injection pump fitted in lieu of the distributer. These were used in BMC Nuffield tractors and developed 15HP. Next was the BMC B series 1498 cc engine which was given the same treatment and fitted in Post Office vans and also became the BMC Captain marine diesels. Similarly, the Land Rover 2.25/2.5 were also "dieselfied". One of the reasons for using indirect injection technology was that the "BANG" or knock from indirect combustion was less explosive and was thought to reduce the impact on the crankshaft so that the bottom end of the petrol block and crankshaft did not required modification. This also had the benefit of reducing noise level. The Ford 1.6D was based on a 5 bearing block similar to the Cortina engine and I am led to believe the diesel engine was developed by Hatz in Germany for Ford. No Idea where the 1.8 came from as it is quite different in terms of valve drive, and oil pump operation. One of the first indirect injection diesel engines that I know of was the Mercedes OM 36 which was introduced in 1949.

Direct Injection was the mainstay of all heavy diesel engine technology such as lorries and buses and traditional boat engines which included the Volvo MD1 2 and 3 series.

Modern direct injection is a world away requiring onboard computers, diagnostic equipment, injectors which are fired by electrical signals and eye-watering fuel pressures.

Me, I just like old diesels (DI or IDI) so I can use a screwdriver to listen to the Tick on the high pressure lines as the injector fires, always reassuring :)
 
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