Force Four Google hijack by Mailspeed?

john_morris_uk said:
Others will understand these things better than I do, but I notice that when I Google for "Force Four chandlery" the first hit on Google is not surprisingly entitled "Force Four Chandlery" but is actually a link to Mailspeed Marine. I know that they've fooled the system somehow, but it's still a bit sneaky...
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It took me a few minutes to realise what you were talking about as I use Firefox and have Adblock. I had to disable Adblock to see the Mailspeed advert.

It is enabled again. :cool:

I have history with Mailspeed - see posts passim.
 
nathanlee said:
If they were beating them in the organic listings, that would be a bit sneaky, but impressive
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I think this is the crucial point that some here may have missed - this is an advert, not a search result. The link is question is not "the first hit on Google" as the OP claimed.

Adwords shenanigans of all kinds exist, but I don't believe Google allows people to buy their position in the search itself.

Pete
 
prv said:
I don't believe Google allows people to buy their position in the search itself.

Pete
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Yes they do via their agents. We pay £1k PA for guaranteed 1st page listing when a Googler types in one of 4 keywords.

Our competitors also pay, some more, some less. Sometimes we are at the top, sometimes they are. We receive an 'average position' report every month - usually its about 2.4.

Google are very adept at making money from their search engine, especially as is it very difficult (& therefore costly) to prevent competitors using your name as one of their keywords or using exaactly the same keywords. Works both ways though!

I
 
ianj99 said:
Yes they do via their agents. We pay £1k PA for guaranteed 1st page listing when a Googler types in one of 4 keywords.

Our competitors also pay, some more, some less. Sometimes we are at the top, sometimes they are. We receive an 'average position' report every month - usually its about 2.4.

Google are very adept at making money from their search engine, especially as is it very difficult (& therefore costly) to prevent competitors using your name as one of their keywords or using exaactly the same keywords. Works both ways though!

I
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You cannot by a position with Googles organic search results, you can buy sponsored listings which is via Google Adwords.

Anyone telling you that they can get you a guaranteed position in Google organic positions is lying and trying to rip you off!
 
prv said:
Who is "we"? Or rather, what are the keywords? I'm curious to see the results of your outlay.

Pete
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Sorry Pete, its not info I want to divulge to third parties. I intend not to renew next year and monitor the response to my keywords. However I can assure you that typing any of the 4 keywords into Google does show my website on the first page of search results every time, the exact position varying to give the average position of 2.4 over the month.

I did suspect that it worked by Google promoting keywords up their rankings for a fee....

However I can also see that a scam is possible whereby a company will suggest some keywords relevant to your business after doing a bit of research to see which are already high in the rankings.....If this is happening should Google not be warning about it?

(I also use adwords with different keywords)
 
I must admit than when I find a web based retailker has tried to con me by such practices it greatly reduces the chances of me ever buying from them. It shows they think the public are total numpties who will be fooled by their cunning tricks. If a company has that low an opinion of me I have no desire what so ever to become one of their tame numpties.
 
ianj99 said:
Sorry Pete, its not info I want to divulge to third parties. I intend not to renew next year and monitor the response to my keywords. However I can assure you that typing any of the 4 keywords into Google does show my website on the first page of search results every time, the exact position varying to give the average position of 2.4 over the month.

I did suspect that it worked by Google promoting keywords up their rankings for a fee....

However I can also see that a scam is possible whereby a company will suggest some keywords relevant to your business after doing a bit of research to see which are already high in the rankings.....If this is happening should Google not be warning about it?

(I also use adwords with different keywords)
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Talk to me privately if you like, I suspect there is something fishy going on with this company you are working with. No angle on my part other than to try and help you. It sounds very "Black-Hat".
 
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Here's a tip. When you see a sponsored link like this on Google. Click through to the website of supplier A and then go and purchase from supplier B. If you really dont want to contribute to this lunacy, use google for the lookup and then find the web address in the search result and enter that without simply clicking through from the google page.

Supplier A gets charged the £1 out of his own pocket for your click through and supplier B gets your profit margin.

The web is all about profiling you as a consumer. Google is a massively capable, profile driven, marketing engine, the fact that it does searches is secondary to their prime business driver.
 
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Passing off

It looks like we too are suffering from Mailspeed's Google titles, albeit the bold part says Marine Store rather than MarineStore.

It's a shame they feel the need to mislead in this manner, I have submitted a complaint to Google but don't expect much of a response. Google's attitude can be very high handed and they are an amazingly powerful online force, it doesn't do to upset them too much if your business needs their search engine.

On the thorny question of paid Google entries - we use them because we have to. It is a fairly expensive exercise but it does have the advantage of immediacy, something you can't have with magazine adverts.

It is pretty difficult to get a high "organic" listing although we don't fair too badly. The simple fact of the matter is that if you're not on the first page of results query, then you are nowhere and the only real alternative is Adwords.

John Lodge
Marinestore Maldon
 
I can see why a business would want to have an advert when someone searches for a competitor's name - that way you may be looking for one chandlery but will get the option of seeing the other option as well, which you may not have thought of trying. Where it gets unacceptible surely is when the advert tries to mislead you into thinking it is the company you searched for, which must be of dubious legality.

Out of interest am I the only one who is not reassured by Google's corporate goal to "do no Evil"? To my mind that implies that they have actually had to think about it, and possibly even needed a board meeting where they voted on "Evil" or "Not Evil" - or am I just to cynical?
 
Mailspeed Adwords

I have written Mailspeed asking them to withdraw their advert but have not had the courtesy of a reply, let alone the removal of it.
This is the basic format:

Marinestore
www.MailspeedMarine.com Electronics, Chandlery & Clothing Free P&P On Orders Over...

I don't have a problem with other chandlers such as Force 4 advertising when searching for Marinestore but I do object to Mailspeed using our name in a deliberate attempt to mislead.

In an attempt to stop them the expensive way, is there a chance that the forum members could search for Marinestore and click on any ad that looks like one of ours with a Mailspeed link?

I know it's a real cheek but if you don't ask...
 
ianj99 said:
Yes they do via their agents. We pay £1k PA for guaranteed 1st page listing when a Googler types in one of 4 keywords.

Our competitors also pay, some more, some less. Sometimes we are at the top, sometimes they are. We receive an 'average position' report every month - usually its about 2.4.

Google are very adept at making money from their search engine, especially as is it very difficult (& therefore costly) to prevent competitors using your name as one of their keywords or using exaactly the same keywords. Works both ways though!

I
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It is not possible to 'Guarantee' first page listings - they can optimise your website and keyword data to increase your chances of appearing on the first page, but not 100% guarantee it.
 
Maybe a niave point,

But can't you just register your company name as a trademark? Or is that too expensive?
 
Trademark

That's pretty expensive to do. We should be covered under the Passing Off regs but that means going legal, again this can be fairly expensive. If push comes to shove it will be a solicitors letter heading in Friday Ads direction.
 
Marinestore said:
I have written Mailspeed asking them to withdraw their advert but have not had the courtesy of a reply, let alone the removal of it.
This is the basic format:

Marinestore
www.MailspeedMarine.com Electronics, Chandlery & Clothing Free P&P On Orders Over...

I don't have a problem with other chandlers such as Force 4 advertising when searching for Marinestore but I do object to Mailspeed using our name in a deliberate attempt to mislead.

In an attempt to stop them the expensive way, is there a chance that the forum members could search for Marinestore and click on any ad that looks like one of ours with a Mailspeed link?

I know it's a real cheek but if you don't ask...
Click to expand...


How did you write to mailspeed (email or snail mail) where did you send it Friday-ad address or Falcon Park address head office is Friday-ad Mailspeed Offices located at the falcon Park - also there has been a management change recently so may not be anyone in position to answer it right now!
 
That didn't last long - If you Google for Force Four or Force 4 then you get an ad saying "Force Four Chandlery" which is really a link to Mailspeed again. Sorry to confuse ads with Google hits in my description of the bad and misleading practise earlier.

I know its an ad - but its a misleading ad. I just clicked on it as per suggestions in previous posts. I don't like to be vindictive and cost people money on purpose, but I was only checking the link - honest. I then went back to the force four site that I really wanted in the first place. (Underestimated the number of mast steps I needed!)
 
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