Force 4 Deck Hatch - Also - Which way round?

[yachtorion]

Anyone got any experience of one of these please?

http://www.force4.co.uk/force-4-storm-deck-hatch-flanged.html

Am planning to use one to replace the Houdini hatch I've just taken out. I'll need to cut the corners out a bit more on the deck but I'm not too worried by that. It's a good price.... nearly 20% less than I've seen a Houdini for.

Secondly - anyone got any views on which way round hatches should be installed? Facing forward or back? I can see arguments for both but I'm wondering if there is a concensus/norm?

Thanks!

 

[Tranona]

Looks similar to a Gebo. Have a look at both to compare. Big price difference makes it look attractive.

Pros and cons of mounting. mine are mounted with opening forward because boat was built for the Med and you get better through flow of air. On the other hard it is argued that facing aft is safer as it reduces the risk of the hatch being forced open if solid water comes over the deck.

 

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

As long as there's room to exit the hatch between it and the mast, I'd definitely mount it with the hinges towards the bow, for the reason Tranona says. Boats have been lost through a forward-facing forehatch refusing to close against an inrush of water from a head sea. An aft-facing hatch, on the other hand, can close itself automatically under these circumstances.

I don't think the ventilation reason carries a lot of weight, to be honest. On most vessels the airflow is from aft forward whatever the wind direction, when an open aft-facing forehatch operates as an educt vent to suck air out of the hull.

Mike

 

[Twister_Ken]

I don't think the ventilation reason carries a lot of weight, to be honest. On most vessels the airflow is from aft forward whatever the wind direction, when an open aft-facing forehatch operates as an educt vent to suck air out of the hull.

Mike

Disagree. At anchor or on a mooring a boat will lie head to wind. An aft-hinged forehatch pulls in the breeze, which then exits via a forward-hinged hatch on the coachroof or via the companion. Bliss in warm weather (34ºC here at the moment).

As to watertightness, the answer is simple - NEVER sail with hatches open.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

..... As to watertightness, the answer is simple - NEVER sail with hatches open.

This is the gist of the argument about aft/forward facing hatches and the risk of water ingress; keep them closed at sea. If a hatch is poorly constructed or poorly installed then a rough sea will exploit those weaknesses no matter what way the hatch is facing. Should one have to open a hatch at sea for ventilation e.g. gas leak, then always in the locked vented position.

I have been in a flat calm, with just zephyrs and ghosting along, when a crew member exclaimed 'WTF is that?' Northwards and heading towards the yacht was a line of disturbed water, seconds later we were hard on our ears, foredeck awash, No1 and Full Main pinning us flat with the gunwales under. Firth of Clyde. So it can and does happen.

If you are coding your boat it will have to be aft facing hatches, otherwise, if I was Med bound, forward facing would be a choice I would seriously consider, or fitting a wind scoop for an aft facing hatch.

Sometimes direction is dictated by things like inner forestays, or hinge position where the open hatch may pivot beyond 180 degrees and damage the hatch hinge. I would hazard a guess that the norm is opening facing aft wards.

 

[macd]

+1 with Twister Ken. Like him we're in a hot place.
Yes, hinges aft is arguably less seaworthy and demands more care to ensure hatches are secured at sea, but most of the time we're parked and prefer not to simmer.

 

[Momac]

On my boat the hatch for the front cabin has the hinges on the stern side of the opening. So when exiting through the hatch you are climbing out on the ledge that is lower , so its a slightly easier climb out.
When closed the hatch should be able to resist water ingress regardless of where the water is coming from.

 

[RichardS]

We've got large red "Breeze Boosters" on all our hatches at this moment. If our hatches did not open with the gap at the front we would have all died from heat exposure several days ago.

In fact, we might still expire. .. .or we might just throw in the soaking towel and go home. Perhaps try again in September!

Richard

 

[michael_w]

My preference is for the fore hatch to be hinged on the aft edge. Much easier to work the foredeck that way round, also the ventilation is much improved.

Here's a photo committing the cardinal sin of sailing with the fore hatch open. Under trade wind conditions, it was the only way to reduce the temperature to bearable proportions. Sadly night watches dressed in shorts are a distant memory

 

[Tranona]

As ever the choice is in part determined by the type of sailing you do. clearly if you spend most of your time on board at anchor in the Med, forward opening is essential (plus wind scoop and mossie screens!) but if you spend your time bashing to windward in a wet boat in northern waters, aft opening is probably the choice, particularly if the boat is coded. Of course in the good old days a good boat would have hatches made so that they could open either way depending on conditions.

 

[yoda]

I notice you are looking at the flanged base hatch, this has a lip below the flat part of the frame which fits down below the deck level. If you are re-cutting the deck opening to suit this then fine otherwise the flat based version may be a better option as the deck opening size is not so critical. I used similar flat based replacement hatches when replacing all my old hatches and it saved me a lot of fiddling around with cutting GRP.

Yoda

 

[alahol2]

I notice you are looking at the flanged base hatch, this has a lip below the flat part of the frame which fits down below the deck level. If you are re-cutting the deck opening to suit this then fine otherwise the flat based version may be a better option as the deck opening size is not so critical. I used similar flat based replacement hatches when replacing all my old hatches and it saved me a lot of fiddling around with cutting GRP.
Yoda

Agree whole heartedly. The hatch does look like a Gebo, well engineered. Ours is aft hinged so that we catch a breeze at anchor, keeps condensation away. Have forgotten to close it on occasion which can cause damp bedding.

 

[LittleSister]

I'm wrestling with the fore/aft opening conundrum at this very moment. I'm replacing our slightly leaking Houdini with another Houdini, and as soon as I finish my forum displacement activity I'll be back on the job.

The joke is I chose the Houdini to save having to cut out a different shape opening / new screwholes etc., but when I came to fit it it turned out to be very slightly different in size or shape than the original, so wouldn't fit the opening without it being widened slightly (it also looks like the screwholes might be in slightly different positions). Unfortunately due to the flange it's not possible to see where the discrepancy is when it's in position, so I'm just about to make a template from the new hatch to work out where the opening needs to be widened slightly.)

The old hatch was aft opening, front hinge, and when fully open tends to strain the hinge (we usually place a ball fender on the fordeck to take the weight off it, but usually only remember that when we're part way through opening it from inside). I suspect that the strain on the hinge might have precipitated the leak (which occurred after a 4 week trip to France with a lot of hot weather and hatch often being opened wide). Placing it the other way round (aft hinge) the babystay would prevent the hatch opening too far, and provide a convenient 'rest' for it. (Some other designs of hatch have a built in means of supporting the hatch wide open, but the Houdini doesn't.)

Against is the risk of getting spray & rain in when it's propped open. We sleep under it, and the first mate insists it's open at night, and when she dozing below on long passages, in all except the foulest/coldest weather.

I think the answer is perhaps to have it aft opening and make canopy for the hatch for for use when there's a risk of rain/spray. I think I can live with the ultimate storm/sudden squall risks.

But I'm still in two minds, so am interested to hear any further views on the topic.

 

[oldvarnish]

I think the answer is perhaps to have it aft opening and make canopy for the hatch for for use when there's a risk of rain/spray. I think I can live with the ultimate storm/sudden squall risks.

But I'm still in two minds, so am interested to hear any further views on the topic.

that's what I do and works fine. It may not be relevant to you, or others, but boats complying with ISAF regs are required to have the hatches opening aft.

 

[johnalison]

I've had boats with hatched facing both ways and for most sailors I don't think it matters much. Anyone who sails in open water with a fore hatch open is probably going to manage to founder some way or other sooner or later.

 

[Seajet]

The forehatch on my boat is on a sloped deck; examples with hinges at the front mean one has to climb out over the open hatch lid.

However with hinges at the aft edge ( and a ' rollstop ' mechanism or similar ) the hatch can be left horizontal, so it not only scoops air in for ventilation, it keeps light rain out.

As mentioned I always ensure the hatch is shut and locked ( Lewmar Ocean hatches have a ' vent ' position but I always fully close mine when sailing ).

If planning to sail across the Atlantic or similar, I'd fit U bolts fore and aft of the hatch and webbing straps.

 

[yachtorion]

Well I'm coastal sailing around the UK with perhaps an irish sea crossing or two, but I really hate hot weather. So I'm going to put the hinges aft for max vent. Like the rest of you I always close and secure hatches at sea.

Thanks all.

 

[doug748]

But I'm still in two minds, so am interested to hear any further views on the topic.

Anne Hammick (Ocean Cruising on a Small Budget, etc) recommends the hinges aft and I recall was quite specific about the advantages of sailing along in the tropics with a good draft through the boat.

I have never had to worry about tropical heat.

Unless sailing, my hatch is always cracked slightly open and, as it has hinges at the front, rain never finds its way in. Mind you rain may not get in the other way around....but I think it would due to the particular camber of the deck.
Keeps the boat sweet having an open hatch on the mooring but you have to figure out a way of locking it.

 

[TQA]

As ever the choice is in part determined by the type of sailing you do. clearly if you spend most of your time on board at anchor in the Med, forward opening is essential (plus wind scoop and mossie screens!) but if you spend your time bashing to windward in a wet boat in northern waters, aft opening is probably the choice, particularly if the boat is coded. Of course in the good old days a good boat would have hatches made so that they could open either way depending on conditions.

+ 1

My current boat has 7 forward opening hatches, just cooling blowing sleep allowing bliss in the Carib.

 

[yachtorion]

So I bought the hatch. I'll post some pics when I've finished of installing it to the boat, but I thought folks might appreciate some pics of the hatch..

Firstly, Satan's hatch himself.. the old Houdini... I think this had probably been leaking LONG before I had the boat and it had made a hell of a mess of the deck core where the self tappers went in. As far as I can tell the only bit of cored deck the horizon had, with some knid of quite solid (pre-leak) foam in it. All chiselled out and epoxy filled now!

Then the force4 hatch...

Overall impression so far... it's a good quality bit of kit. Nicely made. No problems. I've had to expand the cut out a bit in all directions - especially the corners which are a smaller radius... but I'm getting there now. Just waiting for some filler to dry!

In short for £200 I think it's a good buy. It holds itself in position nicely and it has little locking toggles on the inside, but if they aren't locked it can be opened from the outside. It has a locking vent position. In general, much better than the houdini.

Force 4 were happy to send one out to the Swansea store for me to look at and the friendly Irish chap there (must get his name!) cut it open then left me to look over it in my own time.