following a debate over drive options

[Neil_Y]

Some time ago there was an interesting debate regarding the pro's and con's of drive options being adopted by builders.

I hope no one minds me adding this bit of information for show visitors, even though I am involved with one of these drive systems.

This SIBS is the first time in the UK that all options are at one show, now you can see the systems and talk to builders. Thought I'd post this as there were quite a few people that showed an interest in what we were up to. We may in the near future have direct comparisons between old and new on the same design of boat which could be a chance for a magazine to run a direct comparison of shafts and shafts in tubes.

The new or newish drives are IPS (Volvo) , Zeus (cummins mercruiser), Axis (caudwell marine) and Seatorque BOSS.

The Seatorque drives can be seen on the new Fleming 65.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

thats very interesting!

Would be nice to have some direct figures comparision as you say with like to like...

F&S Boatworks a custom sportfish builder spoke very highly of Seatorque on the video you posted a few months back
now these kind of builders are very sensible of performance so I am sure is no bluffing in this

the problem here is to compare with the marketing costs IPS and Zeus have to get the massage around

 

[benjenbav]

The current MBY has a used boat test on the Beneteau Flyer in which it was suggested that the IPS version (on a 2005 boat) would still hold a £30k premium over the shaft driven model.

I was quite surprised by this because I would have expected - on a boat that can't be too difficult to move around with a twin shaft set up - to see the IPS premium eroded almost completely on a four year old model.

If that continues to be borne out by the marketplace then it's very good news for Volvo and CMD.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Some time ago there was an interesting debate regarding the pro's and con's of drive options being adopted by builders.

I hope no one minds me adding this bit of information for show visitors, even though I am involved with one of these drive systems.

This SIBS is the first time in the UK that all options are at one show, now you can see the systems and talk to builders. Thought I'd post this as there were quite a few people that showed an interest in what we were up to. We may in the near future have direct comparisons between old and new on the same design of boat which could be a chance for a magazine to run a direct comparison of shafts and shafts in tubes.

The new or newish drives are IPS (Volvo) , Zeus (cummins mercruiser), Axis (caudwell marine) and Seatorque BOSS.

The Seatorque drives can be seen on the new Fleming 65.

I know you've got a product to push but Seatorque can hardly be mentioned in the same breath as the other 3. Seatorque is a slightly more efficient way of transmitting power in a traditional shaft drive installation whereas the other 3 are genuinely innovative new drive systems
Thats not to say that I wouldn't be interested in a comparison between Seatorque shaft drive and non-Seatorque shaft drive. Perhaps it might justify the price!

 

[Neil_Y]

In some ways true Mike, but innovation doesn't have to be complex, and complex solutions are often not the best solutions. I'm from the school of less is more in engineering if at all possible.

Are Zeus, IPS and Axis really that much more than a more complex outdrive? and following on from the large commercial pods. These have the advantage they can use hybrid power better by putting the electric motor down in the leg.

I'll look forward to your comments after you get on board a boat fitted with them, I'll be announcing another builder moving to them tomorrow. If you're interested and you might find them as options on some other boats at the show.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

In some ways true Mike, but innovation doesn't have to be complex, and complex solutions are often not the best solutions. I'm from the school of less is more in engineering if at all possible.

Are Zeus, IPS and Axis really that much more than a more complex outdrive? and following on from the large commercial pods. These have the advantage they can use hybrid power better by putting the electric motor down in the leg.

I'll look forward to your comments after you get on board a boat fitted with them, I'll be announcing another builder moving to them tomorrow. If you're interested and you might find them as options on some other boats at the show.

This is an interesting commercial contest. You could argue that the apparent efficiency gains of pod systems plus their associated control and space benefits will mean that shaftdrive will eventually die out as a means of powering leisure boats. If systems like Seatorque can substantially increase the efficiency of shaftdrive and the cost to the builder of fitting shaftdrive + Seatorque is similar to fitting pod systems , then maybe shaftdrive will have a future as a competitor to pod systems. So it will be very interesting to see what sort of efficiency gains Seatorque achieves across a variety of different boats.
Obviously, you know your business much better than I do but it does seem to me that the high price of Seatorque does restrict it's market to new boats only. It's shame that the price isn't lower as there's potentially a huge retrofit market out there but the kind of efficiency gains you have been talking about relative to the cost of the system just dont make economic sense for existing boats

 

[Neil_Y]

Just lost what I typed!!

Anyhow, I don't see it as a contest as all the alternatives give builders and designers more to play with, IPS gave interior designers the chance to come up with some new interesting layouts. Volume wise I don't think you'll find IPS takes up any less space than a shaft with Seatorque thrust bearing. Seatorques are much smaller than aquadrives in diameter.

Cost wise a Seatorque set up is comparible and possibly cheaper than a shaft, cutless bearing, through hull stern gland and aquadrive.

IPS is a fantastic development, and has given us some interesting layouts, whether they are better boats in the long run is up to individuals and boat owners come in all shapes and sizes! I just wish I had one tenth of Volvos marketing budget!

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

hello Neil is it true Seatorque will be used, on the Horizon Bandido Yachts, marketed by Drettmann...
that would be an important step for you in Europe, as the Horizon Yachts are quite populare with the Germans and have quite a good share of the market there, would be interesting to know if they will use them on the Elegance range too

while many here are speaking of pods as the saviour many popular builders are not so much jumping on its bandwagon
worth to note is that Ferretti Group out of how many models has not even one with Pods
the same goes for Princess, and Fairline are changing the 44 Targa to stern drive too
Azimut offer the pods only on the 43S so far and if you put them as a group the only other boat is the Atlantis 50x4

we are seeing builders jumping on the IPS bandwage like Beneteau Gourp, and the succesful Absolute, and more commerical all Joe brands like Cranchi, Sessa and Sealine
but for the rest is still a big tight match between IPS and shafts, with many still prefaring the later option IMO

what surprise me in all this contest that the Brits like Fline and Princess did not jump in this IPS band wagon so much, and this is a food of thought
and these do normally built what I call boats for everybody like the above, meaning they are quite commercial brands....