Folksong yacht Lisbon to the UK opinions welcome

[KellysEye]

We came back from the Algarve to the UK a couple of years ago. We intended to go via the Azores, so we could sail the angles, but were delayed by gales and couldn't leave until May. So, having to be back on a certain date, we went up the coast with three stops total. I would never, ever, ever go north up the Portuguse/Spanishcoasts again.

It's directly upwind and upcurrent (2 knots) into the summer Trades which average 20 knots gusting to 25/30 around headlands, we motored all the way to the beginning of Biscay.There was little wind in Biscay so we sailed out into the Atlantic, picked up a cold front and got back to Lymington in four and half days after many weeks of slow motoring.That was in a 38 foot heavy diplacement long keel ketch.

I would strongly suggest the with a small boat and singlehanded you get her taken back by road. In your position that's what I would do.

 

[30boat]

Going north along the coast of Portugal is usually very hard verging on the impossible especially for a small boat.But sometimes it's not.My friend took his boat from the algarve ,against my advice but he said he had time,in the middle of the trades season to La Rochelle and faced no northerlies at all.Anyway, I would take the Azores route myself but I've done it before and the op doesn't seem to have the experience.

 

[Polly1]

Thank you very much for all of the advice. My experience of boat owning has been idealism and then learning things the hard way, now advice is always welcome.
So I will have the Northerlies in the summer and the low speed of the boat against me.
I am not experienced enough for the Azores route but I like some of the other options.
I hadnt thought that coast hopping my way home could cost the same as trailing on the cheap. A partial trail and then a sail sounds nice and as mentioned could avoid a ferry cost. Although I would have to take the trailer and van either onwards or back to Lisbon.
I hadnt thought of the possibilities that canals offer but by the time I had trailed to France continuing might be more attractive than a slow route on inland water.
Does a trail to the North East coast of Spain and then coast hopping make things much easier in terms of making passage?

 

[ripvan1]

Hi again - be assured the northerlies don't blow 24/7 in the summer along this coast, the trick is to make use of the times they are not blowing down the coast - late afternoons to mid morning are good times to be on the move, done it several times, once single handed.

I found a problem was not enough wind by travelling during these hours so carry plenty of fuel.

You've 6 weeks to get from Lisbon to UK - say at worst 2 weeks port hopping up to Corunna - take in a few ports along top of Spain, say 1 week - take on crew northern Spain and head to northern France (Camaret) say 1 week - if you're running late leave boat there or if making good time head out for UK, say another week. Once you get started north you'll enjoy - but get started

 

[scruff]

Not much to add, other than you have a great boat, more than capable of making the trip. I know as I have one too!

It would also be a cracking adventure.

The Azores are supposedly beautiful and well worth visiting. (I believe Webby from this forum wrote a good account of the place in an article somewhere...)

But as you alluded too, you lack the confidence to go offshore by yourself just now.

If I were you, I'd leave the boat in the south for the time being. As you mentioned, storage costs in the Algarve are pretty reasonable.

I would also spend as much time whilst you are in the UK learning as much as you can about solo/offshore sailing, RYA qualifications if you desire, and as much time sailing with other people as you physically can. All this whilst having the luxury to "jet out to your yacht" for some sunshine sailing in the summer.

THEN next year contemplate sailing your boat back to the UK.

By this time you will know if you would rather have a cracking adventure; sailing off to the Azores and back to the UK but end up with your boat in the damp UK. Alternatively you prefer having the boat moored in the sunshine for your holidays and sailing with someone else in the UK or even perhaps get a dinghy for your UK base...

 

[KellysEye]

> be assured the northerlies don't blow 24/7 in the summer along this coast, the trick is to make use of the times they are not blowing down the coast - late afternoons to mid morning are good times to be on the move, done it several times, once single handed.

That's not correct, I have heard that can happen occasionally but we had the winds 24 hours a day for weeks. We had the same going south. I guess you take you can get lucky but I wouldn't take the risk again.

 

[Babylon]

With the long school holidays to play with, I think that I would be tempted to keep your boat in Portugal, at least for a year, going out there for holiday trips and sunshine, and see where you settle down in the UK. It will give you a chance to suss out the local options which, as people have said, vary hugely in terms of cost and the type of sailing from area to area. Trying to sort out a new job, accommodation and somewhere to keep the boat as well may take the edge off the trip. You could always bring her back next year, and built up some experience of longer trips too...

Not having done the passage the OP is describing, but based on his more important personal affairs, this sounds like eminently good advice!

 

[ripvan1]

> be assured the northerlies don't blow 24/7 in the summer along this coast, the trick is to make use of the times they are not blowing down the coast - late afternoons to mid morning are good times to be on the move, done it several times, once single handed.

That's not correct, I have heard that can happen occasionally but we had the winds 24 hours a day for weeks. We had the same going south. I guess you take you can get lucky but I wouldn't take the risk again.

Strange innit that I've done it a good few times and many many times southbound with no wind at all - so please don't insinuate that I'm telling porkies - thanks.

My most recent trip southwards was September last and from Ushant to Finisterre we had non-stop S/westrlies then no wind at all down Portugal.

Fed up with people who want to argue the bloody toss all the time and fill less experienced folk with negative vibes - based on how much experience I wonder ?

 

[AndrewB]

My most recent trip southwards was September last and from Ushant to Finisterre we had non-stop S/westrlies then no wind at all down Portugal.

Fed up with people who want to argue the bloody toss all the time and fill less experienced folk with negative vibes - based on how much experience I wonder ?

You've been lucky. I've always had predominantly notherly or north-westerly winds, except once, in winter, when I had several days of south-westerly gales that closed all the ports, and had to get well off-shore.

I've only done N -> S. SWMBO has had a couple of summer delivery trips the other way and one of these was in light winds. Then she was bedevilled by fog, specially at the capes, Trafalgar, Sillero and Finesterre.

I don't recall the current being quite as strong as KellysEye suggests.

 

[ripvan1]

You've been lucky. I've always had predominantly notherly or north-westerly winds, except once, in winter, when I had several days of south-westerly gales that closed all the ports, and had to get well off-shore.

I've only done N -> S. SWMBO has had a couple of summer delivery trips the other way and one of these was in light winds. Then she was bedevilled by fog, specially at the capes, Trafalgar, Sillero and Finesterre.

I don't recall the current being quite as strong as KellysEye suggests.

Quite so - http://oceancurrents.rsmas.miami.edu/atlantic/portugal.html

" Generally, the mean flow on the surface is southward, however seasonal winds in the region can result in both northward and southward flows, which were observed with drifters equipped with holey sock drogues centered at about 15 m over a period of 14.4 years (Martins et al., 2002). During the summer, predominant trade winds from the north cause wind-driven and persistent upwelling along the coast of the Iberian Peninsula. Cooler water from depths of 100-300 m is upwelled (Smyth et al., 2001). These events usually begin around and are particularly intense off of Cape Finisterre and Cabo da Roca, often forming filaments that can reach as far as 100 km westward (Cuelho et al., 2002; Hutnance et al., 2002) and their velocities, tracked by thermal features in satellite images, can reach up to 0.28 m s -1 (Smyth et al., 2001). "

(about half a knot I believe)

" During the spring and summer months, surface current flow is mainly towards the south at rates of between 0.05 and 0.15 m s-1 (Cuelho et al., 2002; Huthnance et al., 2002)."

(about 0.2 knots)

So in my book 2 knots and weeks at sea battling up the Portuguese coast are just pure exaggeration and very discouraging for people looking for reasonable advice.

 

[Noahsdad]

+1 As Ripvan above writes.

I brought my boat back from Lisbon to Portsmouth last August.
I didn't really notice much of a current either way, going north or south along the Portuguese coast only getting out of the river.
I was on a 38 with 2 crew so not all of my experience will be relevant though we only have a 20HP inboard.
From Lisbon in benign weather 30 hours later we ended up with 35 kts up the transom for 7/8 hours and put into Baiona to buy a new tiller pilot.
Plenty of fog along the coast.
Baiona was great place as lots of single handed heading south, interesting characters and a good anchorage.
We rounded Finnesterre with no wind and decided to buy Jerry cans in La coruna as zero wind all the way across Biscay to Cameret.
Overnight there and more fuel and we motor sailed all the way to blighty.
Engine hours 146 at 2.5 litres an hour. 925 nM.

If you have 6 weeks you can wait for the right weather.
Get good up to date pilot books for the route and surf the tinternet for knowledge.
Your trip is totally possible, p,p,p,p,p,p. Prior Preperation prevents piss poor performance.

Good luck and fair winds.

 

[William_H]

I think the answer to this question really lies with the OP. Long distance sailing is definitely an acquired taste. I would not set off without being very confident of my own coping with the constant movement and long hours of sailing. Indeed I know enough of myself to never contemplate that voyage but then that is for me. You may be one of the happy few who enjoy long voyages. Certainly a lot of people think it is for them only to find them selves wishing they were ashore. The advice you have had has been from those who love long distance sailing so do not depart unless you know you are one of them. Boats are usually far more seaworthy than their skippers.
All the other options are good. Is the beam of the boat narrow enough to be road legal without permits for over width? it is a limit of 2.5 metres here but may be different in Europe. As said you may find that good weather sailing is cheaper from Lisbon including air fairs than locating in UK. You may even find a buyer for the boat in Lisbon who is a UK buyer who would relish the chance to sail on through the Med. good luck olewill

 

[Seajet]

In the OP's position,

I'd leave the boat where she is, at least for a year and sort out the job / repositioning oneself to the UK while hopefully adding to sailing experience when possible.

I think a reasonably experienced crew would be nigh on essential for the big trip.