Foam Backed Headlining-Worrying?

C08

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 Feb 2013
Messages
3,962
Visit site
Posted on another sailing forum-cause for concern or over-hyped? Any chemists or medics on here care to comment with some technically sound thoughts.

Sir
Does your boat have any foam insulation? Has your boat got decorative foam-backed vinyl stuck on the deckheads and bulkheads, two-part foam, or sprayed foam?
The moment this foam starts to powder you are in danger of killing yourself or your crew. The foam in question is a polyurethane foam; it is the only foam that powders. It is broken down into a fine powder through heat and moisture, just what boats in the tropics encounter. It is only a matter of time before this happens.
This powder is highly toxic, as are urethane paints. The chemicals used to make urethane products are:
À Toluene-2,4-Diisocyanate
À Toluene-2,6-Diisocyanate
À Methyl Isocyanate (responsible for the Bohpal disaster, used for pesticides)
À Hexamethylene Diisocyanate
À 3-Chloro-4-Methyl Phenyl Isocyanate
À Isophorone Diisocyanate
À Methylene Bisphenyl Isocyanate
How do I know that this is toxic? I was unaware of the toxicity of this foam and when I was delivering a Prout Snowgoose 37 from the Canaries to Cape Town, the foam-backed vinyl that was stuck all over the deckheads and bulkheads started to powder and fall down. It was cosmetic not structural so I did not think it serious.
I ended up with severe edema of the respiratory tract and was unable to breath properly for three weeks. The three crew all had different symptoms and all were affected. Not bad, 100% hit rate.
The boat was eventually abandoned and we were rescued by a Spanish long-liner, a Korean car carrier and the Brazilians, all of whom were fantastic, and to whom we owe our lives. The boat was lost. I ended up in hospital for 10 days on cortisone, antihistamines, and having my lungs washed out. The medical staff at the hospital were super. I could not ask for better treatment.
We all still suffer from side effects and pollution makes our lives miserable as the problems come back.
A friend had the same problem on her steel boat with the hard version of the foam and got severe dermatitis, which continued for three months, with other symptoms, after leaving the boat. She still suffers outbreaks - even synthetic clothing materials cause a breakout.
Severe sinusitis, flu-type symptoms, itchy eyes, eye damage, sinus, coughs, asthma, reduced respiratory capacity, headache, nausea (mistaken for seasickness), vomiting and irritability, pulmonary edema, phlegm, fatigue, allergic reactions, kidney and liver damage, loss of memory and concentration, cancer, miscarriages, birth defects and death are all caused by these toxins. The effects can be both acute and chronic and once sensitized you will have problems for the rest of your life and be in danger of death if exposed again.
Why have the maritime safety authorities not done anything?
I would suggest that should you require further proof of the above, do some research. The internet provides a huge amount of information on this.
You have been warned.
Meme Grant
Durban
Letter shortened. Ed.
 
That is a scary list of substances...all carcegenous........nice!!!!...headlinings on older Westerly,Moody's,and many others..
 
Like everyone else, I too have foam backed headlining. Therefore, I urgently need to do a bit more sailing before I die soon.......although I am still OK after all these years of exposure, so are all the people that I know.

The truth of the matter is that chemicals will have an affect either direct or indirect and under certain conditions or circumstances will have a dramatic affect, as in this case. Most chemical compounds will cause irritation of the respiratory system when inhaled in powder form.

It will be interesting to hear from a chemist with relevant knowledge
 
I have just returned home after spending the weekend scraping this bloody stuff off the sides of my forecabin! No ill-effects so far but if I start to feel unwell I'll toddle along to the doctor's with a copy of your post. Thanks for the warning.
 
.............just ruined a nice Merlot...............sure you meant well? hopefully your next post will more 'uplifting'
 
Your living room sofa, dining room chairs and the car are all packed with polyurethane foam. The boat is not the only place you'll come across it.

That having been said boats are probably more likely to be a source of the broken down powder that forms when it rots away. I've spent more than a few days caked in the stuff after stripping a couple of boats of headlinings without any side effects.
 
Severe sinusitis, flu-type symptoms, itchy eyes, eye damage, sinus, coughs, asthma, reduced respiratory capacity, headache, nausea (mistaken for seasickness), vomiting and irritability, pulmonary edema, phlegm, fatigue, allergic reactions, kidney and liver damage, loss of memory and concentration, cancer, miscarriages, birth defects and death .

Having followed the "debates" on these fora for many years I see now that many of us are suffering from powdered headlinings.
 
A 37 foot catamaran will have double the headlining of a monohull. In the center section the lack of headroom will cause the head to brush against the headlining. Not trying to diminish the warning, just making an observation.
 
Well, SR had had the headlining replaced when I bought her & the previous owner was not a well person, but that may well have been his smoking, eating & drinking habits. I have had her long enough (25+ years) for the "new" headlining to decay. I have simply supported most of it with light wood battens sprung into place behind the curtain rails - a cheap, quick & very effective solution.

Some (side panels in lockers & sides of aft cabin) have been removed & replaced with "bathroom" carpet, but there are still regular small piles of black powder mixed with the dried mud & sand brushed up in every clean out. No signs of ill health yet for me or any of my family crew. But then, we don't sail in the tropics, which may have a bearing on our health.
 
Not meaning to be alarmist but I was really looking for informed comment from an "expert" medic or chemist that would throw some light on this. I just wonder whether the crews illness could have been mould spores perhaps from a shut up boat in a hot and humid climate or some other medical cause and the toxic foam analysis being just a red herring. I am sure there is more to this story perhaps even court action between the boat owners, the crew/skipper, the boat insurers who woulod not have been pleased at the boat being abandoned. Perhaps the delivery skipper had to show good reasons for abandoning the boat to avoid legal liabilities-an odd tale though.
 
Her linkedin profile has membership of a couple of health related and holistic medicine groups too. :)

Holistic = crank in my book.

At a guess the problems she had would be related to long exposure to the powdered failed foam which is far different from you sitting on your foam filled car seats that are decades away from powedering. So its a useful warning about taking care when replacing the headlining but is irrelevant to most boat users. HJas to be said that there are lots of other dusts / powders than can be very nasty including sawdust for example. The real message is dont put yourself in a situation where you are breathing in any heavy dust for any length of time.
 
Most of the chemicals listed are the raw materials, these react together to form the plastic foams (the poly means many from latin or greek). Thus the original chemicals are now bound in much longer molecules. When new there may be some unreacted materials but these will leach out and evaporate in a year or two. Whilst I would not advocate deliberately breathing the dust in it it is probably only a nuisance dust (I am not an Occupational Hygienist or a toxicologist merely a chemical engineer). Burning the foam is a seriously bad idea as all sorts of very nasty chemicals can be released.
 
Not expert but studied toxicology long time ago, so heard stories. Powdered polyurethane can do such things as described in case the polymer is breaking up chemically - the monomer, basic particle so to say, is toxic. This can happen in higher temperature. Not to mention cyanide gas and any other stuff released when burned, kills on one breath... Not only foam, anyone using varnish here?
Another cause might have been the vinyl (PVC) itself - vinyl chloride is toxic as well, and some other toxic chemicals are in.

Same goes for most plastics really. Just consider some names. Phenol-formaldehyde (mostly wood glue); epoxy is made from Chlorinated Biphenyls (PCB) - toxicity is in chronic exposure; polyester resin is made with ethylene glycol and styrene, and so on. Fire in boat isolated with polystyrene foam took couple victims, lung damage.
Important thing is to have plastics not breaking up. Should I mention using mask when working on boat?
 
Well intentioned or not, the last para of the post really scares me. Paraphrasing will suffice for such subjective personal recount....' Why haven't the maritime safety authorities...(?) done something?'

A veritable minefield that one .. Nooooo
 
Well intentioned or not, the last para of the post really scares me. Paraphrasing will suffice for such subjective personal recount....' Why haven't the maritime safety authorities...(?) done something?'

A veritable minefield that one .. Nooooo

Very scary - sad to say, sounds a bit like tabloid journalism or lobby group stuff. It seems to me these days that nobody is prepared to take any responsibility for their own health and safety. Rather than research the possible ill effects of materials and equipment and do their own written or instinctive risk assessments, it is demanded that the "authorities" make rules, banning anyhting that might possibly present a hazard, however unlikely, and that the consequences of lack of self responsibility should be compensated by the hiring of no win no fee legal parasites.

Rant over....
 
Top