Flying the Jolly Roger

S

Sea_dreamer

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 Nov 2004
Messages
180
Location
Scotland
www.sea-dreamer.com
Being a newcomer, after months of lurking, I thought I would finally "come out" now that we have at last got the boat.

My first question is one to do with the kids. As part of the process of brainwashing - sorry entertaining - the kids, pirate ships are a good theme. Youngest is a wild Peter Pan fan. So pretending to be a pirate ship is a good start. Going to the beach, searching for treasure, that kind of thing.

However who am I going to offend by hoisting a Jolly Roger? Bear in mind I have seen yachts dip their ensigns to passing subs (here on the Clyde) and seen the rating run to dip in return. We also took care to fly courtesy flags on the delivery trip. I also found that flying the Navy has flown the Jolly Roger in the recent past - see Answers.com - Jolly Roger.

If I fly the Jolly Roger am I going to be torpedo'd by a passing sub, or upset the Yacht Club commodore?

John

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
If I fly the Jolly Roger am I going to be torpedo'd by a passing sub, or upset the Yacht Club commodore?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably both, and you also run the risk of initiating a lengthy debate on here about the rights and wrongs of doing it and the correct burgee to fly with it.

But I'd just do it anyway!
 
If you fly it at the crosstrees rather than as an ensign, that should keep the kids perfectly happy and not offend anyone.

Having said, that, last summer the Finnish coastguard requested me to take my (I mean, my kids') one down, even though it was a tiny one at the crosstrees. I am still struggling to fathom the Finnish sense of humour.
 
I wore one once as a gesture in the face of frog customs officer and was locked up overnight in La Trinite sur Merde

The UK is tolerant of flags, burgees, dustbin liners as telltails, etc .... but anywhere over the waters (except Ireland) are still locked into the 15th Century.

IE: Don't fly the skull and crossbones anywhere. Period.
 
I think technically you can fly it as a house flag from the port spreader as long as you also fly your ensign of registration ie show your true colours. The actual offence is I think flying false or no colours. Flying from the starboard spreader would be putting it in a position of authority- which is why the courtesy flag goes there in foreign waters.
As said elsewhere - reality is that in UK no one should bother you, but over the horizon 'there be dragons' I hear tell some smaller countries in warmer climes earn foriegn currency by insisting the courtesy flag is an exact size and shape and make you buy one from them at exorbitant rates. Perhaps some of our well travelled members could confirm or deny and state where if true.
 
You should be fine: I say this as someone who flies biggish 1.5 yd jolly roger from halyard on charter hols to remeber where the heck we anchored it. I also hardly ever fly courtesy flags, cos i'm very rude and discourteous. You've probably already upset the Commodore cos his title starts with a capital letter, so best not worry too much.
 
I can't believe it would be much of an issue in Italy. I've seen German boats moored long-term in Italy still flying a Croatian courstesy flag, Italian ensigns so tatty the red's been worn away, and any number of Venetian flags flown every which way.
 
Hi Lizze B,

I've not come across anyone demanding a particular size flag, or trying to make me buy one - yet! But that's only through the Med. and Caribbean, so don't know about other countries.

One thing for sure and certainly in the Caribbean islands, is the need for the correct i.e 'latest' , courtesy flag to be flown. The smaller islands in particular, are very proud of their country, and showing proper courtesy allied to praise for the scenery, people etc, goes an enormous way to making fantastic friends.

It has also completely smoothed the way in otherwise 'officious' immigration offices too. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

In any case, we LIKE flying the correct courtesy flag! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Cheers Jerry
 
Re: Flying the Jolly Roger - and piracy

I agree, there is no place for a jolly roger in todays society, but accept pirates are everywhere to be seen in kids books and cartoons, bouncy pirate ships etc ........

however, piracy is a real and in some areas - common danger ......... many seafarers get killed, maimed and injured every year.

why piracy seems to be an amusing or acceptable topic is a bit of a mystery to me, being boarded by armed drug crazed and booze filled thugs at sea is not funny ....... I can only put it down to a lack of appreciation of the inherent dangers of piracy.

a pal of mine was recently abducted by pirates, tied to a tree in the jungle for days, routinely threatened with death and violence and on his release had a nervous breakdown. he is now retired from the merchant navy and although making a recovery is but a shadow of his former self. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif another guy about 30 miles away from my vessel about the same time had an axe buried in his temple by pirates ........ /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif a few years ago my relief had 20 shallow stab wounds in his back after being boarded by pirates intent on finding 'treasure' the ship didnt actually have on board

piracy is going on every day and is no laughing matter, talk to anyone who has sailed through high risk areas in a defenceless commercial vessel ........ or even a pleasure craft though normally these boats keep well clear of risky areas

its a peculiar oddity, we dont 'celebrate' rapists, hostage takers in iraq or murderers here - I dont see any 'I love huntly' tee shirts around, but caricatures of pirates are common /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif ......... I wonder why pirates are so lovable creatures - any offers ? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

so - perhaps that is why the jolly roger is not acceptable to many, if not most knowledgeable ppl

saying that, I admit there is no doubt a large following of ppl who are well acquainted with walt disney cartoons and 'romantic' novels portraying buccaneers and pirates as ok types ...... in fact our history has many a tale of such goings on, but that doesnt alter the fact that modern day piracy is a scourge for all seafarers - and is lethal.

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Re: Flying the Jolly Roger - and piracy

Then again, today's pirates don't fly the Jolly Roger. The link between hollywood swashbucklers and modern armed maritime thieves is at best tenuous. I't's like wearing a Dick Turpin outfit to a fancy dress party and being told you're supporting yardie gangs!

But I'll go along with statements that other countries are very much more sensitive about flags.
 
Re: Flying the Jolly Roger - and piracy

Well, yes.

But real pirates are Indonesian Naval officers "moonlighting", usually, (at least, they were in the three cases where friends of mine were attacked, aboard ships I was managing at the time) or Nigerian bandits, or the un-charming fellows on Socotra, and they don't fly the Jolly Roger.

I've flown a big skull and crossbones off the port speader at an Arthur Ransome Society meeting, so I suppose that defines my position.
 
spent time there this spring, cut the trip short, pinch faced miserable and ignorant, no apparent s.o.h.
Upon raising the issue back home was told ' once you get to know them they have a wicked sense of humour'
yeah alright maybe compared the north koreans........
 
Re: Flying the Jolly Roger - and piracy

Mirelle,

I had you down as a hand sewn swallow flag..... There's less of the Roger in you than I realised..... I shall have to start calling you Nancy /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Seriously.... I just can't equate the flying of a Jolly Roger in UK waters with the undoubtedly serious and frightening issue of piracy on the high seas...
 
Re: Flying the Jolly Roger - and piracy

First ,Sea dreamer welcome to the forum and second congratulations on the new boat.

Third, I thought the whole pont of piracy, fictional or factual, real or metaphorically was to live outside the rules of normal society. Quite frankly if you are worried about the "correct" way to fly the jolly roger, I suggest you stick to your day-time job.

However, to succeed as a pirate you will have to re-cut your jib or at least install a bigger iron topsail - around 600 hp should do it!

Let us know where you buried the treasure.
 
The real Roger

My 10 year old son Alex will be delighted to tell you that he has met someone, (also called Roger), who was taught to sail by "the real Roger"*, and that the real Roger flew a Spitfire in WW2 and went on to develop the athsma inhaler.

I don't think I am up to those standards, even in the eyes of my children! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*Roger Altounyan
 
Re: The real Roger

Great stuff!

I have numerous Arthur Ransome URLs added to my favourites drop down courtesy of my daughter, including many about Roger Altounyan and family..... she was delighted a couple of weekends back when we were chatting with a couple at Titchmarsh, and he asked her what her favourite book was... she responded with "Peter Duck", and he then launched into an in depth conversation with her about the excitment of sailing to a Caribbean island!

We are still hoping to come along the Swallows and Amazons weekend in the Walton Backwaters in July..... perhaps see you there...
 
:)

Neither Vi nor Jan nor H nor D nor B nor anyone else knows that I'm in the process of bidding for 'Ethel B' an everso very derilict Appledore 1894 BCPC.

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Nige
 
No one will say anything to you, probably, but many will tut and see you as a non serious sailor etc. Some will react differently to you should you come alongside etc.

Easier not to fly it in my opinion, it does look rather tacky too.
 
[ QUOTE ]
but many will tut and see you as a non serious sailor etc. Some will react differently to you should you come alongside etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
But only non-serious sailors would think such a thing. And anyone who would react differently to you if you came alongside with such a flag would be a mentally deficient non-serious sailor in need of re-education, so it's a good idea to fly the JR to show them how real sailors behave /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
IMO its akin to wearing 'kiss me quick hats', using durex as party balloons and wearing silly 't' shirts ........
you only have one chance to make a first impression ...... yo, simon, fly your flag

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top