Flushing outboard in an engine well

[wombat88]

OK, perhaps a little bit of negative thinking but you've goaded me into pondering....for which thanks are in order!

Getting the fender onto the engine:

The engine (6hp) is quite a tight fit in the well and only goes through the hull when twisted to full lock and then straightened up. The horizontal plate/small wing above the prop doesn't help. I'll have a look but I am not sure that I can see a way to get the suitably cut fender down the well alongside it, down and over the leg. Hence thinking about a softer, thinner, bag. Maybe something like those garden bags that have a springy top to keep them open.

The alternative would be to somehow submerge the fender over the stern and pull it up into the well over the leg. This might turn out to be easier particularly with a couple of lines left permanently in place.

Having said that, when there are no weighty gents in the back of the boat the leg really does not extend far into the water so maybe the fender/bag doesn't need to be too big.

As an aside...those whose boats are driven by legs or z drives or whatever they are called...they leave them in the water the whole time. Do they have cooling passages in them? Are we worrying too much?

'sperimentation required on a warmer drier day.

(Not sure about bungs, weight forward in the cockpit lifts the well and bottom of transom out of the water like a dinghy sailor should. Not spent much time looking at it when in a sea...nor tried to plane yet...

 

[coveman]

Seriously, I'd be tempted to fabricate a two-part bung, from stiff closed-cell foam, rather larger than the aperture, so the foam is compressed in use and stays in place. The halves could be hauled up out of the well much more easily than a single piece. Maybe the foam around the leg would need some defending against exhaust heat? But that can't be beyond science and ingenuity.

That could well be the answer to the flushing problem - but security does concern me so I would still remove the engine and keep it in the cabin. I guess it all depends on your local area and your attitude to risk.

 

[coveman]

An alternative to flushing with a tub/fender, as above, would be to use the water flushing point which is on the bottom of the leg of the engine. On the Yamaha 8hp 2 stroke that I have there is an adaptor which screws into this point for use with a hosepipe. Normally this would be done off the boat, but if the engine is to be removed to live in the cabin, as in the case of a boat on a mooring, maybe this could be utilised. I am thinking of a container with say, 10 litres of fresh water and using a power drill driven pump to force the water up the leg ( being as there would not be mains pressure).
There are several pumps of this type on the market for around £10 that fit on a power drill - just wondering if anyone had any experience with any. It would have to capable of being driven by a battery powered drill.
In this situation the engine does not need to running and I am assured by Yamaha there would be enough bleed past the thermostat for it to work.

 

[Greenheart]

These are interesting thoughts, thank you gentlemen.

You may even switch my interest to a different yacht, if I can't choose between one with a tired, raucous, temperamental gutless diesel, or a crime-vulnerable, high-maintenance overpriced overweight outboard...plus there's the lack of headroom and wheelhouse...

...but I guess getting the most from any design will need careful consideration and custom adoption, even of a good idea.

Before you said it Wombat, I was thinking that a line led down the well and back up to the counter, could be hooked for periods of use onto the fender (or whatever flexible waterproof shape might most easily be drawn up around the engine leg), rather than necessitate shoving it down the well, if the well doesn't leave much free space. I reckon it'd be worth a determined attempt.

I'm not sure whether the best patented system for protecting an outboard by covering its clamps (or did I dream of such a thing?) is inferior security, compared with locking it in the cabin...doesn't an engine which is regularly stored in a cabin, guarantee any thief at least one thing to reward breaking in? Particularly if you are regularly seen stowing it in there.

I like the idea of using a drill-driven pump to flush out the brine...although, that cordless drill will be another thing you'd be wise not to leave on board. Since we're talking about rather small yachts, I'm reminded of the happy idea I had a few months ago, of equipping the yacht with a small outboard auxiliary, light enough to transfer to the tender at going-home time...

...nothing left on board to attract local human bacteria, and nothing preventing you bathing the outboard in a bucket of fresh, at home.

 

[wombat88]

I spoke to a local well respected outboard specialist the other day. He said...'why drag the damn thing around?'

His approach was to paint the leg (boot top etc), replace anode and leave it in the water locked to the boat with the sort of lock you describe (insurance co approved). If you are really worried about security paint the engine the nastiest colour you can find.

He made the point that so long as someone (presumably him) took the time to clean out the passage ways once a year then all would fine.

I'm not going to let worrying about a 10 year old outboard spoil my enjoyment of the boat and will take him at his word.

I'm sure others will not agree...


Dancrane, Sounds like you are thinking about buying a 20ft ish boat, I went through the business of choosing one last year. Less than 6.5m, dry out flat, cheap etc etc. I was getting nowhere 'over thinking' the whole process. Solution? Think of it as big dinghy...

In the end I had a look at and bought a cheap boat off Ebay that was just round the corner. Happy I am and gradually moulding it to my needs. There will be compromises certainly but at least I can go sailing!

 

[Greenheart]

I spoke to a local well respected outboard specialist the other day. He said...paint the engine the nastiest colour you can find...

He made the point that so long as someone (presumably him) took the time to clean out the passage ways once a year then all would fine.

Sounds like you are thinking about buying a 20ft ish boat...Think of it as a big dinghy...

Sounds like good advice. It's nice to hear from a dealer, that outboards don't need routine flushing. Think I might be inclined to pamper my own, though.

Regarding my unnecessarily laboured decision of 'which boat?', I realise that a good boat for sale a mile away, is better than the perfect boat 300 miles away.

The dinghy analogy is at the heart of the problem though...I already have a big dinghy, terrific in its way, and when I buy a yacht, I hope to escape from dinghy-limitations. The bigness of the Osprey prevents me sailing on excellent days because there's too much breeze. Easily solved by a ballast keel, but if I make the step up to keeping a boat in the water, I'd like to enjoy all the benefits (and ease) available from a yacht that's more than a dinghy with a lid (although I like the Swift-style mini-cruisers very much too).

Even though I'm surrounded by boats in the Solent, exactly where to keep one is a decision I want to get right. There are absurdly priced marinas and very cheap swinging moorings...and of course, the closest moorings are very exposed, while the well-protected ones will be rather a pain to get to...

...so I must balance how much bother I can tolerate accessing the boat, before it would have been smarter just to pay four figures per year, to keep her on a local pontoon. But it wouldn't matter much to get that decision wrong in the first year...boats are movable.

The engine question bears on this a good deal though - a long ride in the tender is less irksome with a good outboard; and the right outboard might serve as a small yacht's auxiliary too. Can anybody remember why a long or ultra-long-shaft outboard isn't suitable for a light tender? I've been told before, just can't remember.

 

[wombat88]

I'm a dinghy sailer who is losing interest in getting wet. Whatever you choose your Osprey will always be in the back of your mind as you beat in restricted water.

Key question:

How long would it take to get to the boat in summer traffic?

If you are the sort of person that likes to nip out on the water for a couple of hours without planning then a marina is a big help.

If it takes you ages to get to the boat then you are sort of compelled to spend longer on it which in turn has an effect on the type of boat you choose.

One huge advantage of not being in a marina is that you don't have to rant about them...but by the time you have found a mooring, somewhere to park, keep the dinghy, rowlocks, oars and maybe an outboard, we marina dwellers are halfway to the Island, poorer maybe, but sailing.

Swift, Hunter Medina, Jaguar 21, Beneton, E boats etc. Quite how they would motor against the weather with less than 5hp I wouldn't know.

 

[Fantasie 19]

Is a few gallons of water so problematic an addition to the stores of a small yacht, Fantasie? I usually have a couple of litres on the Osprey, just for drinking.

A fair question - but for me "yes" - what you're asking me to do is carry out an extra 10 pounds weight* in addition to the other stuff I'm carrying - every time I go out to the boat in the tender... i've got a couple of two litre bottles of water on board - that's for tea - I only drink the stuff mixed with hops and barley...

You question about removing the engine though is good - I remove mine every trip and store it securely...

* weight of 2 gallons of water apparently.. according to t'interweb anyway...

PS.

Can anybody remember why a long or ultra-long-shaft outboard isn't suitable for a light tender? I've been told before, just can't remember.

It's something to do with the fact that the exhaust would be too far under water for the engine to generate the pressure to expel exhaust gasses.. so it stalls.. I think..

 

[VicS]

A fair question - but for me "yes" - what you're asking me to do is carry out an extra 10 pounds weight* in addition to the other stuff I'm carrying - every time I go out to the boat in the tender... i've got a couple of two litre bottles of water on board - that's for tea - I only drink the stuff mixed with hops and barley...

You question about removing the engine though is good - I remove mine every trip and store it securely...

* weight of 2 gallons of water apparently.. according to t'interweb anyway...

PS.

It's something to do with the fact that the exhaust would be too far under water for the engine to generate the pressure to expel exhaust gasses.. so it stalls.. I think..

1 imperial ( UK) gallon of water weighs 10 lbs

 

[Greenheart]

...what you're asking me to do is carry out an extra 10 pounds weight...

:biggrin-new: I'd no idea you cruise a 49er, Fantasie! Is your boat so weight sensitive? Or do you object to physically taking it with you?

Surely, living in the UK, you could rig up a bit of tarp held by shockcord over the cockpit, weighted in the middle so the inevitable rain pools and trickles through a hole into a 20-litre jerrycan...and if it overflows, it'd slosh out of the cockpit drains?

It's something to do with the fact that the exhaust would be too far under water for the engine to generate the pressure to expel exhaust gasses...so it stalls...I think...

I think I've heard that's nonsense, though I don't blame anyone for believing it, I might have done too. But outboards are grunty little beggars, and even a breathless old sod like me can blow down a foot or more of hosepipe under the sea. I don't think it'd stall.

Whatever you choose, your Osprey will always be in the back of your mind as you beat in restricted water.

If you are the sort of person that likes to nip out on the water for a couple of hours without planning then a marina is a big help.

If it takes you ages to get to the boat, you feel compelled to spend longer on it...which has an effect on the type of boat you choose.

These are good, persuasive points. I've no intention of selling the Osprey; in fact I believe continuing to sail her will make owning a not-very-thrilling cruising yacht, easier to live with...it'll be completely separate experience. I'd really like a floating caravan with proper headroom, and I think a low-rise race-bred 23-footer would frustrate all my long-held reasons for wanting a cabin.

That said, the 'caravan' would need more than a petrol outboard auxiliary.

Considering how long it's taking me to reach for my wallet to buy the yacht, I don't think it's in my nature to keep the wallet open and shell out at least another 50%, just for 12 months in a marina berth. Plus, the swinging moorings I like are three miles nearer the open sea than the only affordable marina. And an hour aboard on one of those moorings would beat all day in a noisy marina.

Slowly, I'm talking myself towards a conclusion...apologies to anyone looking for the bit about outboards.

 

[Cheetahcat]

Has anyone devised a cunning plan for doing this? My boat lives on a swinging mooring in summer and the Yamaha 8hp 2stroke bolts into the engine well. I normally unbolt it and store it in the cabin when not in use and flush it with fresh water at the end of the season. More modern 4 strokes have flushing points to flush the engine in situ but the only way to flush mine is using muffs or the water access point at the bottom of the leg ( which is no use when in the well).
Could I tap into the engine somewhere or am I best to just flush at the end of the season? As an aside does anyone use the anti salt "Blu Thru"system?

Hi Coveman, How did you get on with the Blu Thru, did you use it in the end, thinking of doing mine but there are a few different ones to choose from and Blu Thru look good. regards.

 

[Greenheart]

Four years on...(where the hell did that time go?) I've now owned two outboards and a yacht, and sold the yacht and her outboard.

"Considering how long it's taking me to reach for my wallet to buy the yacht, I don't think it's in my nature to keep the wallet open and shell out at least another 50%, just for 12 months in a marina berth." Yeah, the berth p/a cost 90% what the yacht did. ?

But for flushing the smaller outboard, I found a damaged buoyancy bag in a wrecked dinghy at the sailing club...

...a quick fix with Gorilla tape, and now it can be filled with fresh water and slung around the leg of an outboard...

...the photo was at home, but it wasn't hard to reach down through the yacht's engine well, put the yellow bag round the leg, draw it up, stirrup-pump the seawater out then pour enough fresh in to allow a couple of minutes' flushing.

It works fine, and the bag can be left around the engine leg, empty.

It doesn't solve the security question of leaving an outboard visible on an unattended yacht, nor where to find a couple of gallons of fresh water while cruising - but it's certainly possible to flush an outboard without taking it out of the well.

 

[coveman]

Hi Coveman, How did you get on with the Blu Thru, did you use it in the end, thinking of doing mine but there are a few different ones to choose from and Blu Thru look good. regards.

Yes 4yrs disappeared!

I did use the Blu Thru but you can only really guess as to whether it does any good I suppose unless you set up a technical experiment. All I can say is that so far I haven't had any problems with blockages.
Dancrane's idea looks good if you have the room to use it - I think I have seen a similar suggestion on another thread using a cut off fender. Unfortunately on my boat there is no room to use one as the engine is encapsulated with a rubber "bung".
I have also seen suggestions that the engine could be left in situ in the well, providing a suitable primer and antifoul are used, negating the need to remove the outboard each time the engine is used. I actually think that is quite common practice with heavy engines but I have not had the courage to do it!

 

[LONG_KEELER]

I have an old very wide fender with the top sliced off.

Position the fender thru leg whilst engine in situ and secure (two small holes in top of fender lanyard thru.)

Pump seawater out and add fresh. Probably best not to run in gear.

p.s. I have the old fender but not tried it yet. Please report back if feeling heroic .

 

[Cheetahcat]

Yes 4yrs disappeared!

I did use the Blu Thru but you can only really guess as to whether it does any good I suppose unless you set up a technical experiment. All I can say is that so far I haven't had any problems with blockages.
Dancrane's idea looks good if you have the room to use it - I think I have seen a similar suggestion on another thread using a cut off fender. Unfortunately on my boat there is no room to use one as the engine is encapsulated with a rubber "bung".
I have also seen suggestions that the engine could be left in situ in the well, providing a suitable primer and antifoul are used, negating the need to remove the outboard each time the engine is used. I actually think that is quite common practice with heavy engines but I have not had the courage to do it!

Ordered a kit today so will try when it arrives, with the plastic chamber where you put the tablets i suppose one could fill with vinegar and flush through, some folk rate vinegar to dissolve the salt build up..