Fletcher Panther / Mercruiser

[george unthank]

had a lot of trouble when an unqualified engineer installed a the gear box/ spline ; engine coupler; turbo charger
Anyone know where I can get parts - turbocharger - for this engine.
I live in W COAST IRELAND .
considering shipping costs etc , any advice as to where I might search for part in UK which delivers to Ireland .
I keep getting a runaround fron USA to EUROPE TO UK and eventually to Ireland
Any help would be appreciated .
I later installed the right ''leg'' and the system takes off at 15 mph instantly.. the tirbo now clicks in instantly
Advise
Ckeck with mercruiser TWICE before installing new leg !!

 

[landlockedpirate]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

You are right 'Panther' was not associated with Fletcher but they did buy all the rights and tooling to build a few of the Fletcher boats, including yours the Fletcher 19GTS Sportscruiser.

Sorry to say that Panther got a lot more wrong than they got right and the 120hp Mercruiser diesel was a bit of dog in that application.

The good news is that you can still get most parts for the engine direct from Mercruiser and all the parts for the boat are now available from the reborn Fletcher boats.

The Fletcher boat forum can be a big help, but its not hugely active and can take a few days to get a response.
( Fletcher Forum )

 

[george unthank]

Thankks Mark
Do you have an email address for a mercruiser dealer in UK (or Irl) who can deliver in reasonable time . Irl. We are expecting the boats to arrive Tues 3rd Jul.
I have a mechanic on standby if I could locate the part .
I am currently getting engine coupler replaced , but I dont expect to be using this agency again. The triangulation of the delivery was Byzantine ,and still not delivered . Expected to be delivered Fri.
I am working on assumption that Turbo may need replacement and want to avoid unnecessarily chasing round 2 continents to get part,
I am hoping against hope to have boat in water during the 8 days the boats are in Galway
If .
Looking at 29 sealine 2007 -he's looking for 80 + K . Any experience of these. what would you reckon to be a reasonable price

Any help would be appreciated .
I later installed the right ''leg'' and the system takes off at 15 mph instantly.. the tirbo now clicks in instantly
Advise
Ckeck with mercruiser TWICE before installing new leg !!

Last edited by george unthank; Today at 13:50. Reason: CHnged circs.
Any help would be appreciated .
I later installed the right ''leg'' and the system takes off at 15 mph instantly.. the tirbo now clicks in instantly
Advise
Ckeck with mercruiser TWICE before installing new leg !!

Last edited by george unthank; Today at 13:50. Reason: CHnged circs.
Don

 

[george unthank]

Thanks for that
I'm now looking at ab Sealine SC 29
2007
Imaculate cond etc. bow thruster . heat ;open /closed cockpit option
I usually sail without assuming my guests will be capable crew so need to be independent to do all.
Lifting anchor might be prob if it is not assisted .
She does 25 Gal / Hr at 29 MPH / knots (?)
What whoud she do at say 10mph ?
any one have any thoughts on these craft .?
Seller is looking for €85 K...worth it ?
Any known probs with craft . Any hazzards I should be looking out for .

 

[rafiki_]

I have 2 of these engines in my Sunline. To date, I have been very happy with them. If the wastegate mechanism is exposed to salty moist atmosphere then it can seize causing overboost and piston problems. The base engine is an Isuzu from the Astra van, and you can get the parts from a Vauxhall dealer for a fraction of the Merc prices. If you know what you need try a friendly dealer. The parts guy at my local dealer is great. He loves the challenge of sourcing parts for Rafiki.

 

[george unthank]

Rafki
Thank you for that insightful piece of info,
DO you think the turb for the ''base engine '' ; the Isuzu from the Astra van,- does it have a turbo firstly ? and secondly would this part be compatible with a for a Mercruiser D 1.7 dti - 2004

 

[B58]

I hace a ''Panther 19sc . Originally it was described as Fletcher Panther . It has a D1.7 DTI diesel mercruiser engine Craft built in 2004
I have had endless probs with this craft .
gear box/ spline ; engine coupler; turbo charger
Anyone else experience similar probs
Now , I understand that Fletcher are not associated with Panther , and mercruiser parts are difficult to get .
Anyone know where I can get parts - turbocharger - for this engine.
I live in W COAST IRELAND .
considering shipping costs etc , any advice as to where I might search for part in UK which delivers to Ireland .
I keep getting a runaround fron USA to EUROPE TO UK and eventually to Ireland
Any help would be appreciated .

What happened with your turbo and engine coupler?

 

[george unthank]

Coupler may have been damaged due to hitting underwater object thiugh I did not experiance any sudden ot traumatic event .
The turbo seems to have perished from'' disuse''' rather than abuse . He tells me turbos'dont like ' going at slow revs.
Moost of my cruising is done at 3000 rpm/ 25mph - so that is not satisfactoorry explanation either .
Someone else advises that turbos are precarious things and just ''go''
How come I wonder , if they dont just ''go '' in car engines with anything like the same frequency ?
got sorted in end by contacting Cummins mercruiser UK#V helpful and most corteous

 

[clydeoutboardservices]

Hi

the waste gate problem is v well know ( well we do now after my mate fell victim to yet another failure and doing some google research) and new ones cost around 2200 or a refurbed one at 800.00. Having researched this more my pal is getting rid of the regal boat as it does look like there are more silly design faults with these engines.

I really do wish you good luck and hope you find a cheaper and quicker way than we have to solve the problem.

 

[rafiki_]

Hi

the waste gate problem is v well know ( well we do now after my mate fell victim to yet another failure and doing some google research) and new ones cost around 2200 or a refurbed one at 800.00. Having researched this more my pal is getting rid of the regal boat as it does look like there are more silly design faults with these engines.

I really do wish you good luck and hope you find a cheaper and quicker way than we have to solve the problem.

Engines work well on mine and other Sunlines that I know, so could be an issue with the installation on the Fletcher? On the web, many of the problems are US fishermen in open dory's with the engines exposed to the salt elements, full chat for several hours and little maintenance.

 

[mercuryman]

mercruiser 1.7

The wastegate issue is well know regardless of installation. Rebuilt many of these on various boats including a Sunline. Not heard of coupler failure on these models though

 

[clydeoutboardservices]

Hi

If you have a working 1.7 diesel mercruiser then I would sell it ASAP unless you can afford 2200+ VAT + install and not have a boat for at least a few weeks.

This is an engine design fault and hence it does not matter what it is installed in.

If you don't believe me, call any mercruiser dealer and they will all tell you the same thing as we have spoken to 5 and ALL confirmed this.

They are ticking time bombs that will hurt any wallet.

 

[george unthank]

Clyde
Thanks for your advice.I know v.little about engines as may be clear from my postings. I am learning the hard and expensive way .
There seems to be general agreement ( with some solid exceptions) to the suggestion that there is a design fault in this D1.7 Diesel.
I have had 5 breakdowns - on lake whereby I had to strugggle home with paddle - 5 hrs on one occasion .
What puzzles me is this ,
The engine has never given any trouble whatsoever . It is the ''add -ons'' which do. When I speak about ''engine '' I mean the internal combustion structure which drives the out drive .
You could say that 100 % of my probs occurred out side the hull - the stern -drive part. Some of these have been due to my own carelessness- hitting bottom etc.
But the turbo is an in -between component , if you follow me. I am now learning about esoteric things like waste -gate , and now that I have consulted the manual I'm picking up quite a lot.
These engines run sars and vans amd dont appear to be quite so problematic . Why so much hassle in boats ? Is it related to the stern-drive mechanism in your opinion ? I mean whats basicaly wrong with the engine and boat . Was the engine /and boat incompatible or was it related to the engine being designed for a van and installed in a boat ?
In any event after 5 mishaops in 6 years I am putting this down to an unlucky boat, and am getting a Sealine sc 29
What do you think of these .
I would be most interested in hearing your views , however regarding what is wrong with the engine l design fault- what does that imply . When cars have a known problem the manufacturers send out TV / Radio msgs recalling the problematic cars.

 

[george unthank]

Open to all who kindly contributed to my probs ;
Reply was addressed to 'Clyde....'but applies to all contributors .
BTW how can I open a ''thread'' on Sealine . I did submit something seeking advice on Sealine 29sc but it has disappeared ..Any suggestions as to where it might have ended up. There doesnt seeem to be a user friendly search engine withine this site for the purpose of finding specific or related problems to the one you have - and for the purpose oof finding a ''lost'' thread.
I am mew to this form of communication , but I can see it has enormous potential , and can offer v helpful advise regarding a problem experienced or shared ..
So if Clyde is reading ... for him originally but decided to try to open it up


Clyde
Thanks for your advice.I know v.little about engines as may be clear from my postings. I am learning the hard and expensive way .
The engine has never given any trouble whatsoever . It is the ''add -ons'' which do. When I speak about ''engine '' I mean the internal combustion structure which drives the out drive .
You could say that 100 % of my probs occurred out side the hull - the stern -drive part. Some of these have been due to my own carelessness- hitting bottom etc.
But the turbo is an in -between component , if you follow me. I am now learning about esoteric things like waste -gate , and now that I have misfortune and unsuccessful venture .

 

[george unthank]

all probs with boat were sorted
wrong gear ratio had been installed with a new outdrive

 

[B58]

Open to all who kindly contributed to my probs ;
Reply was addressed to 'Clyde....'but applies to all contributors .
BTW how can I open a ''thread'' on Sealine . I did submit something seeking advice on Sealine 29sc but it has disappeared ..Any suggestions as to where it might have ended up. There doesnt seeem to be a user friendly search engine withine this site for the purpose of finding specific or related problems to the one you have - and for the purpose oof finding a ''lost'' thread.
I am mew to this form of communication , but I can see it has enormous potential , and can offer v helpful advise regarding a problem experienced or shared ..
So if Clyde is reading ... for him originally but decided to try to open it up


Clyde
Thanks for your advice.I know v.little about engines as may be clear from my postings. I am learning the hard and expensive way .
There seems to be general agreement ( with some solid exceptions) to the suggestion that there is a design fault in this D1.7 Diesel.
I have had 5 breakdowns - on lake whereby I had to strugggle home with paddle - 5 hrs on one occasion .
What puzzles me is this ,
The engine has never given any trouble whatsoever . It is the ''add -ons'' which do. When I speak about ''engine '' I mean the internal combustion structure which drives the out drive .
You could say that 100 % of my probs occurred out side the hull - the stern -drive part. Some of these have been due to my own carelessness- hitting bottom etc.
But the turbo is an in -between component , if you follow me. I am now learning about esoteric things like waste -gate , and now that I have consulted the manual I'm picking up quite a lot.
But can you offer any suggestion as to why even Fletcher wanted out of this Panther design - They referred to their relationship with Panther as a misfortune and unsuccessful venture .
These engines run sars and vans amd dont appear to be quite so problematic . Why so much hassle in boats ? Is it related to the stern-drive mechanism in your opinion ? I mean whats basicaly wrong with the engine and boat . Was the engine /and boat incompatible or was it related to the engine being designed for a van and installed in a boat ?
In any event after 5 mishaops in 6 years I am putting this down to an unlucky boat, and am getting a Sealine sc 29
What do you think of these .
I would be most interested in hearing your views , however regarding what is wrong with the engine l design fault- what does that imply . When cars have a known problem the manufacturers send out TV / Radio msgs recalling the problematic cars.
Why did Fletcher or Mercruiser or Panther do this if they do concede that their relationship (Fletcher / Panther ) was an unhappy one .

The 1.7 core engine is good but it is let down by poor maintenance and bad installations.

The turbo is fine if looked after, the waste gate failures are caused by the siezure of the actuator link, which lives under a heat branket which gets wet and holds moisture, regular checks in this area prevent further problems try using a nikel based anti-sieze around this area,

The piston fails because of this wastegate. Running at WOT with the wastegate closed causes combustion over pressure and piston lets go!

further 1.7 failures were due to intercoolers failing, because the two anodes fitted on the cooler are never changed.

The boat designers should play a part in making the engine cover better sealing the marine engine is not designed to be wet for long periods!

 

[lovezoo]

The boat designers should play a part in making the engine cover better sealing the marine engine is not designed to be wet for long periods!

And in that respect the engine cover on the Fletcher 19GTS is not great, water can easily get in if you are not careful. There are drain holes at the back of the rim of the hatch - if these are not kept clear of debris, the hatch will leak onto the engine.

I don't know if the design is the same on the Panther version.

 

[rbcoomer]

FWIW, I don't think there was any deal between Fletcher and Panther. As I understand it, the Fletcher company at that time folded and the company was sold to SBS (Including the name), but certain moulds and tooling to what became Panther 'under the counter' so to speak with various claims and counter claims! I think there was a legal dispute and Panther later folded anyway. The 19' Sportscruiser was made by both (like some other models) simply because it was in existence at the time the business was sold. It seems they had a number inherent 'flaws' like leaking windscreens and early Lewmar hatches, but these seem to be largely 'designed out' by the current SBS ownership who are slowly rebuilding the brand.

You could always ring Fletcher direct and see what help they can offer - some of the original team from Norman Fletcher's days still work for them and there is quite an amassed knowledge - as well, I hear, as quite an Aladdin's Cave of parts and odds and ends...

 

[rafiki_]

FWIW, I don't think there was any deal between Fletcher and Panther. As I understand it, the Fletcher company at that time folded and the company was sold to SBS (Including the name), but certain moulds and tooling to what became Panther 'under the counter' so to speak with various claims and counter claims! I think there was a legal dispute and Panther later folded anyway. The 19' Sportscruiser was made by both (like some other models) simply because it was in existence at the time the business was sold. It seems they had a number inherent 'flaws' like leaking windscreens and early Lewmar hatches, but these seem to be largely 'designed out' by the current SBS ownership who are slowly rebuilding the brand.

You could always ring Fletcher direct and see what help they can offer - some of the original team from Norman Fletcher's days still work for them and there is quite an amassed knowledge - as well, I hear, as quite an Aladdin's Cave of parts and odds and ends...

SBS and Fletcher are one and the same. Fletcher make the boats, and SBS the trailers, but they have the same ownership.

On the 1.7 TDi, i concur with other posters, the critical issue is the lube of the Wastegate actuator, which can seize if subject to salt corrosion. The Alfa 1 sterndrive is a good bit of kit, and more robust than the equivalent Volvo unit, as it is less susseptible to seal failure on the propshaft, therefore less likely to contaminate the oil. There is also a visible oil reservoir in the engine bay, so you can keep an eye on the oil condition. I have dinged my drives a couple of times, resulting in chobbles to the skeg and dinged props. These have been repaired as new by Steel Developments.

 

[B58]

SBS and Fletcher are one and the same. Fletcher make the boats, and SBS the trailers, but they have the same ownership.

On the 1.7 TDi, i concur with other posters, the critical issue is the lube of the Wastegate actuator, which can seize if subject to salt corrosion. The Alfa 1 sterndrive is a good bit of kit, and more robust than the equivalent Volvo unit, as it is less susseptible to seal failure on the propshaft, therefore less likely to contaminate the oil. There is also a visible oil reservoir in the engine bay, so you can keep an eye on the oil condition. I have dinged my drives a couple of times, resulting in chobbles to the skeg and dinged props. These have been repaired as new by Steel Developments.

I agree the Alpha drive is very robust as long as its looked after, make sure you use high performance gear oil, standard ratio for 1.7 is 2:1 and running a 21" blackmax.

When repairing skegs is not to fit anything made from stainless steel Mercruiser do a replacement skeg P/No: 90185A1