Flashing lights and strobes

[ip485]

Being a pilot and a skipper I was musing why flashing lights and strobes have been so lightly adopted in the marine world?

I notice in the Med. you see many more vessels these days with strobes. The fact of the matter when flying is a stobe is a Godsend spotting other aircraft at night (when VFR, see and avoid rules applying). The eye is naturally attracted to the flash rather than a continous light.

I appreciate at sea closing speeds are much slower and that you may well have plenty of time to see another vessel if having a good watch. I also appreciate that a flashing strobe has tended to be reserved as indicating an emergency situation - MOB for example on a jacket, EPIRB or dan bouy.

I wonder what your thoughts are as a point of discussion?

 

[Davy_S]

I saw a yacht this week moored stern to at my local harbour. It was dark and he had a flashing red light at his lower spreaders, any boat approaching the harbour would have seen the flashing Green Starboard light on the end of the mole, and seen his flashing red 30 yards to the right, ( behind the mole) very confusing. If I had been the Port police I would have fined him then shot him!

 

[lw395]

Flashing lights should be fixed objects, like nav buoys.

It's the opposite to aviation, where the stars mostly decided to be not flashing.

 

[sailaboutvic]

This is now becoming a big problem, more and more boats now have flashing green red white lights which they use as anchoring lights, I am not sure what insurance would say if they got hit.

 

[Ric]

This is now becoming a big problem, more and more boats now have flashing green red white lights which they use as anchoring lights, I am not sure what insurance would say if they got hit.

As long as you have an all round steady white light, it does not matter what other lights you display - though not very clever to display lights that could be confused for navigation lights.

I sometimes supplement my all round white mast head light with a battery powered strobe just above the anchor ball if I am anchored on a moonless night in a busy anchorage, because mast head lights are not easy to see by careless drivers. There was a case a few years ago near Nice when the driver of a high power launch drove flat out into the side of a large yacht with a masthead light and killed himself.

 

[prv]

As long as you have an all round steady white light, it does not matter what other lights you display - though not very clever to display lights that could be confused for navigation lights.

Not just "not very clever":

The Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise and during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights as cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out.

I sometimes supplement my all round white mast head light with a battery powered strobe just above the anchor ball

I just attach my anchor light to the ball in the first place

Pete

 

[fisherman]

I have a rotating orange beacon which is used in extremis, in between hope and a VHF call when a ship is on a collision course with me and I'm fishing. I believe it officially suggests I'm an air cushion vehicle or sub on the surface. It almost always gets results.

 

[johnalison]

I think this question is one for the appropriate authorities to consider rather than for yachtsmen to take into their own hands. Although the use of one in an emergency makes sense, I don't fancy sailing around in the dark surrounded by yotties keen to show off their new toys.

 

[jdc]

The problem I find with flashing lights is the same as I have with bicycles (there are rather a lot here in Cambridge you know!); viz that the flashing may make it easier to spot, but it's much harder to estimate how close it is than one using a fixed light. I think that this is because the thing that really catches attention and tells you distance is movement against a background or across ones's field of vision. A strobe eliminates this effect (ever been to a 1970's disco?).

This may not apply to aircraft so much because of their much higher relative speeds and also I suspect (but I'm not a pilot) because missing other aircraft isn't a 2-D collision rules type approach but instead involves moving to different heights depending on direction and situation.

 

[Birdseye]

Being a pilot and a skipper I was musing why flashing lights and strobes have been so lightly adopted in the marine world?

I notice in the Med. you see many more vessels these days with strobes. The fact of the matter when flying is a stobe is a Godsend spotting other aircraft at night (when VFR, see and avoid rules applying). The eye is naturally attracted to the flash rather than a continous light.

I appreciate at sea closing speeds are much slower and that you may well have plenty of time to see another vessel if having a good watch. I also appreciate that a flashing strobe has tended to be reserved as indicating an emergency situation - MOB for example on a jacket, EPIRB or dan bouy.

I wonder what your thoughts are as a point of discussion?

Unlike aircraft, boat lights often have a meaning other than " I am here". Thus there is an authorised and controlled system in which individual lights have a meaning. Sure in places like the med where the laws dont really mean much, you get individuals doing their own thing and causing chaos

 

[William_H]

Being a pilot and a skipper I was musing why flashing lights and strobes have been so lightly adopted in the marine world?

I notice in the Med. you see many more vessels these days with strobes. The fact of the matter when flying is a stobe is a Godsend spotting other aircraft at night (when VFR, see and avoid rules applying). The eye is naturally attracted to the flash rather than a continous light.

I appreciate at sea closing speeds are much slower and that you may well have plenty of time to see another vessel if having a good watch. I also appreciate that a flashing strobe has tended to be reserved as indicating an emergency situation - MOB for example on a jacket, EPIRB or dan bouy.

I wonder what your thoughts are as a point of discussion?

Your comments take me back to my days as an aviation legislator. (inspector) The regs were quite clear port starboard tail lights like a boat plus
flashing red light to be visible all round and mostly from above and below. Then aircraft started coming from USA with white strobe lights. Not allowed! Then suddenly the airline new aircraft also had the white strobe. It was acase of reality forcing the legislators to follow suit. Now of course white strobe are the norm and very effective.
If enough boats start using white strobe light for being seen then it will also become the norm. Regardless of possible confusion with other marks obstructions etc. I think if I were concerned with beiong seen I would go for white strobe on mast top. but would also have anchor light or nav lights. They era now of LED lights now makes the strobe light perhaps less atractive than when they first came out when they were a vast improvement over incandescant. olewill

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

The problem I find with flashing lights is the same as I have with bicycles (there are rather a lot here in Cambridge you know!); viz that the flashing may make it easier to spot, but it's much harder to estimate how close it is than one using a fixed light. I think that this is because the thing that really catches attention and tells you distance is movement against a background or across ones's field of vision. A strobe eliminates this effect (ever been to a 1970's disco?).

This may not apply to aircraft so much because of their much higher relative speeds and also I suspect (but I'm not a pilot) because missing other aircraft isn't a 2-D collision rules type approach but instead involves moving to different heights depending on direction and situation.

+1 strobes are terrible for proximity, and in a busy environment only cause confusion.

 

[sailaboutvic]

As long as you have an all round steady white light, it does not matter what other lights you display - though not very clever to display lights that could be confused for navigation lights.

I sometimes supplement my all round white mast head light with a battery powered strobe just above the anchor ball if I am anchored on a moonless night in a busy anchorage, because mast head lights are not easy to see by careless drivers. There was a case a few years ago near Nice when the driver of a high power launch drove flat out into the side of a large yacht with a masthead light and killed himself.

I understand what you're saying Ric and mast head light can be too high to be seen, but that it easily sorted by putting an all round light just above the deck, if you're that worried have two.
The regs are clear.
Has for fast vessel speeding through anchors, come launch, or a high powered dinghy, they too need to be stopped twice so far this year I have seen swimmers nearly getting run down by them. It an anchorage not a racetrack.

 

[nigelmercier]

+1 strobes are terrible for proximity, and in a busy environment only cause confusion.

But in an "I am here, see me" situation they are excellent. But not on all the time.

 

[bbg]

It would be disappointing for anyone who fell in the water at night, and several boats saw the white strobe on the lifejacket and thought, "that must be another boat - I'd better keep clear".

 

[Ric]

Your comments take me back to my days as an aviation legislator. (inspector) The regs were quite clear port starboard tail lights like a boat plus
flashing red light to be visible all round and mostly from above and below. Then aircraft started coming from USA with white strobe lights. Not allowed! Then suddenly the airline new aircraft also had the white strobe. It was acase of reality forcing the legislators to follow suit. Now of course white strobe are the norm and very effective.
If enough boats start using white strobe light for being seen then it will also become the norm. Regardless of possible confusion with other marks obstructions etc. I think if I were concerned with beiong seen I would go for white strobe on mast top. but would also have anchor light or nav lights. They era now of LED lights now makes the strobe light perhaps less atractive than when they first came out when they were a vast improvement over incandescant. olewill

The only reason we have to show an all round light at anchor is that when the regulations were written it was not possible to make flashing oil lamps. Strobes are far more effective.

 

[bbg]

To me a white strobe indicates MOB. I think fisherman's orange strobe could not be confused for MOB, and is the kind of thing one might light up for a few moments to catch attention, but not constantly. To me that would be similar to using a white hand flare or a high powered light to get attention.

There are rules that need to be followed. If there is going to be a change it has to start with a change to IRPCS, otherwise we might just as well let everyone do whatever they personally think is best.

Frankly, I am struggling to see the problem that needs solving here.

 

[KellysEye]

The previous owner had fiitted a white strobe to the masthead of our boat. It was a steel boat so shows up on radar well but as we found the occasional ship watch keeper seems not to look at it at night. The purpose of the strobe was to scare of ships that were coming close, we only used it once at sea and the ship did an immediate turn. If you do a lot of night sailing it's worth having as a last resort. We also used it when we did the ARC finish line twice in St Lucia to stand out against the background lights, the crews are usually knackerd so it helped them to see us.

 

[LadyInBed]

Thats given me an idea, I could make up a spiral of 'Disco' flashing LED's

 

[Resolution]

Frankly, I am struggling to see the problem that needs solving here.

There are two problems concerning visibility of a yacht at anchor:
1. How to ensure you are seen by traffic passing through the anchorage; and
2. How to find your particular boat in an anchorage with several other boats.


For the first the problem is if the all-round white required by the IRPCS is stuck on top of a tall mast, then small boat traffic (like tenders) is simply not going to see it close up. So a light lower down is better but will inevitably be obscured part of the time.
For the second, some distinguishing lights special to your boat can be a great help, but of course should not be capable of being confused with other "official" navigation lights.

Believe me, as the owner of a blue-hulled yacht with a masthead all white, these can be real problems!