Flares...traditional or LED?

[JumbleDuck]

And how is that relevant to anything? ... The morse for SOS is recognised internationally as a distress signal, and is a well known sequence. Even school kids know it.

We're talking at cross purposes. The distress signal is officially recognized, but how many people would actually recognize it?

I expect most people know "SOS", but I would be very surprised if many knew that the Morse distress signal is ...---... (not SOS, by the way, as there are no inter-character spaces). I am pretty sure that to most observers a laser flare emitting ...---... would be a flickering light and no more.

 

[Kukri]

As far as I know, it's still lawful now! The MCA tried to claim that it wasn't, but had to admit that they were making it up.

Thanks! I was always careful not to do it in sight of the coast.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Thanks! I was always careful not to do it in sight of the coast.

It certainly is unlawful to appear to be a vessel in distress if you're not, and I think someone at the MCA got a bit enthusiastic about that. Firing handhelds off inland is fine. Not parachute flare, though, as they land burning and you risk doing a Dresden.

 

[rszemeti]

We're talking at cross purposes. The distress signal is officially recognized, but how many people would actually recognize it?

I would suspect considerably more than would recognise a red para flare. I would expect all *relevant* people to recognise it.

I expect most people know "SOS", but I would be very surprised if many knew that the Morse distress signal is ...---... (not SOS, by the way, as there are no inter-character spaces).

I checked with all 3 of my kids, they knew it, shrug.

I am aware there are no inter char spaces, ...-. .-.-. .-.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I would suspect considerably more than would recognise a red para flare. I would expect all *relevant* people to recognise it.

Relevant people would, but I want something which will attract the attention of an old couple out for a walk with the dog, and I am not convince that they will see a Morse distress message as more than a flickering light.

 

[rszemeti]

I can assure you that while some crappy laser pointer with a spinning mirror and the word "flare" written on the side of it may fail to attract attention, *my* LED beacon will not suffer the same fate.

I have para flares and radio for raising the alarm, but ultimately, they have to be able to locate you, perhaps at night on a rocky coast in a storm ... conventional flares have their place for sure, but they are short lived, but an LED beacon that can run for some hours, with 100W LED chips pulsed at 200% power also has its place. Following advice on the forum, I have added a 4th chip on top, for visibility from aircraft. I would say it is brighter than the Whelen beacon on my plane, and I can normally see similar beacons from 20 miles or so when flying at night, so I think it should be "sufficient".

 

[ltcom]

I can assure you that while some crappy laser pointer with a spinning mirror and the word "flare" written on the side of it may fail to attract attention, *my* LED beacon will not suffer the same fate.

I have para flares and radio for raising the alarm, but ultimately, they have to be able to locate you, perhaps at night on a rocky coast in a storm ... conventional flares have their place for sure, but they are short lived, but an LED beacon that can run for some hours, with 100W LED chips pulsed at 200% power also has its place. Following advice on the forum, I have added a 4th chip on top, for visibility from aircraft. I would say it is brighter than the Whelen beacon on my plane, and I can normally see similar beacons from 20 miles or so when flying at night, so I think it should be "sufficient".

Do you have a link to the LED device you mention please

 

[prv]

Relevant people would, but I want something which will attract the attention of an old couple out for a walk with the dog, and I am not convince that they will see a Morse distress message as more than a flickering light.

Is the question about recognising SOS even relevant - do laser / LED distress lights actually flash this pattern? I understand that some of them instead "twinkle" to resemble burning, and the ones that rotate presumably just look like a rapid flickering.

Pete

 

[prv]

Do you have a link to the LED device you mention please

From the mention of adding an LED chip, it sounds like he made it rather than bought it.

Pete

 

[ltcom]

Possibly. It sounds better (brighter) than the Odeo flare that is not very good in daylight.
If homemade perhaps he should market it because it sounds nice and bright.

 

[DownWest]

Friend showed me an impressive LED flare. Bristled with lights. I will ask what it was.
In France, all boats must carry a min of three reds (in date!), though having a HH VHF is, I think, an alternative now.

Friends capsized outside the Isl d'Aix. After failing to right the boat, they popped of the reds. InterIsland ferry saw the last one and fished them out. Apart from now carrying a VHF, we redisigned the aft of the boat to allow self rescue and tested it out.
Tried a rocket flare. Very impressed on the height and burn time.

 

[Neil_Y]

I'll always carry a few red hand held flares, they give a trail of red smoke and really stand out even against the back ground of a busy harbour. I'd be concerned the LED might just be confused for someone playing with a laser torch. I used one once in Plymouth sound near the break water and it had the desired effect in about 30 seconds.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Is the question about recognising SOS even relevant - do laser / LED distress lights actually flash this pattern?

From https://daniamant.com/products/odeo-distress-flare/

 

[prv]

From https://daniamant.com/products/odeo-distress-flare/

One model down, how many to go?

Pete

 

[jdc]

I have many reasons to continue to carry hand-held pyrotechnic flares (NB: I'm not talking about rocket / parachute flares:

1. Hand-held flares are not dangerous: is there any record at all of one going off all by itself despite all yachts and all commercial shipping having carried loads of them for 50 plus years? In contrast, one carries aboard petrol for the outboard, gas for cooking and a mobile phone complete with lithium battery, all of which have caused burns and even death innumerable times. So 'carrying explosives aboard' is not a significant danger with regard to flares.

2. Hand held flares are easy to dispose of: just let them off inland. Bonfire night if you like. Perfectly legal as said earlier.

3. They are cheaper: 4 x handled flares at around £15 each lasting 4 years (so £15 p.a.) or a laser at around £90 (Odeo is £115) lasting 6 years, and you may want more than one laser in case of failure, so 2 x £15 p.a.). Hand-held pyrotechnic flares are actually cheaper.

4. Longevity and reliability: The hand held flares will almost certainly work after 20+ years whereas the laser's Lithium battery will be long dead (not to mention that the battery is itself explosive - see above).

5. Responsibility to self and crew: if you carry flares you have the option of letting them off, or not, as you judge best for the overall well-being of you and your crew in the circumstances (increased risk of minor burns traded off against reduced risk of perishing at sea - your choice), whereas if you don't carry them you have no such option.

If anyone still prefers laser flares, there's no rule to stop you carrying both.

 

[Daydream believer]

My sailing is limited to pottering around the Solent plus the occasional trip to Weymouth, so I've ditched my flares and have an LED "flare". I've never carried rockets, and I reckon the LED job is superior to a handheld flare as it lasts a couple of hours instead of a couple of minutes. Between the DSC VHF, and two mobile phones, I reckon I can get someone's attention, so the flare's job is only to guide them in the last mile or so.

I would not know a LED flare if I saw one, I never have my phone on when sailing. DSC alarms drive me mad,( stupid French use them to announce irrelevant, to me, weather forecast) so I often turn the main VHF off & just use the non DSC hand held, with limited range.
But I would recognise & would respond, to a flare if I saw one

 

[RAI]

4. Longevity and reliability: The hand held flares will almost certainly work after 20+ years whereas the laser's Lithium battery will be long dead (not to mention that the battery is itself explosive - see above).

Down in Lagos, they have flare practice on the beach some years. Of course out of date flares are used. Their failure rate is surprisingly high and the older they get the less reliable they prove. Not for nothing their short shelf life. The most common failure is the fuze. Pull the cord and it comes off in your hand, but no fire.

Letting them off on the beach is one thing. It takes two hands to ignite them (or use your teeth) so on a rolling deck in a storm, not such a safe trick.

A laser flare can be operated by one hand and can be tested regularly.

 

[ltcom]

I keep all my out of date flares. Hermetically sealed. I have alot of flares now. I would carry a laser flare if there was one that worked in daylight. Odeo MK4 is still not bright enough even though SOS has been added to it.

 

[ltcom]

Down in Lagos, they have flare practice on the beach some years. Of course out of date flares are used. Their failure rate is surprisingly high and the older they get the less reliable they prove. Not for nothing their short shelf life. The most common failure is the fuze. Pull the cord and it comes off in your hand, but no fire.

Letting them off on the beach is one thing. It takes two hands to ignite them (or use your teeth) so on a rolling deck in a storm, not such a safe trick.

A laser flare can be operated by one hand and can be tested regularly.

Pains Wessex are one handed.

 

[jdc]

Down in Lagos, they have flare practice on the beach some years. Of course out of date flares are used. Their failure rate is surprisingly high and the older they get the less reliable they prove. Not for nothing their short shelf life. The most common failure is the fuze. Pull the cord and it comes off in your hand, but no fire.

Letting them off on the beach is one thing. It takes two hands to ignite them (or use your teeth) so on a rolling deck in a storm, not such a safe trick.

A laser flare can be operated by one hand and can be tested regularly.

I inherited a box of about 40 out-of-date flares, most about 30 years old. One evening we let them off in the garden (not entirely sober I admit: it was my twins' 21st birthday party). Every single one worked just fine. I wonder whether you'd get 40/40 laser flares working after 30 years?