Flares, disposal of.

[sarabande]

I was concerned that in recent posts there's a presumption that it is "illegal" to fire off old flares in order to get rid of them.

The only legislation I can find is:

The Merchant Shipping (Distress Signals and Prevention of Collisions) Regulations 1996

" Signals of distress
3.—(1) The signals of distress which shall be used by vessels to which regulation 2(1)(a) of these Regulations apply are those set out in Annex IV to the International Regulations.

(2) No signal of distress shall be used by any vessel unless the master of the vessel so orders.

(3) The master shall not order any signal of distress to be used by his vessel unless he is satisfied—

(a) that his vessel is in serious and imminent danger, or that another ship or an aircraft or person is in serious and imminent danger and cannot send that signal; and

(b) that the vessel in danger (whether his own vessel or another vessel) or the aircraft or person in danger, as the case may be, requires immediate assistance in addition to any assistance then available.


(4) The master of a vessel which has sent any signal of distress by means of radio or other means shall cause that signal to be revoked by all appropriate means as soon as he is satisfied that the vessel or aircraft to which or the person to whom the signal relates is no longer in need of assistance as aforesaid."



That's all pretty clear, if cumbersome, but what if someone lets of a flare ASHORE ? The Merchant Shipping (Distress Signals and Prevention of Collisions) Regulations 1996 provisions cannot be applicable, under those circumstance, and if it is really a question of stamping out the practice, what other legislation can be used ?

Possibly:
Wasting police time - section 5(2) Criminal Law Act 1967
or
False alarms of fire - s.49 Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004

I note that nationally, over the past six years, RNLI volunteers have been called out to an average of 36 false alarms each October and November period, due to irresponsible use of red and orange distress flares. <span style="color:red"> </span> <span style="color:red"> </span>

 

[snowleopard]

If you want to have a play, I've got a pile of expired Pains Wessex hand held whites. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Normally I let off my old flares but this time I think not. I emailed PW about them but got no reply.

 

[Talulah]

Set my old ones off last night in the back garden.
Didn't send up the rocket flares but there is no problem setting off the hand held ones.
I suspect some people will raise an eyebrow or two but its not a bad training exercise. You'll know what to expect if you have to do it for real.

 

[MoodySabre]

Coastguard still seems to be the best, if not the only, bet for disposal.

Apparently letting of a flare for fun is the same offence as a hoax 999 call. Wasting the time of emergency services. Quite right too, especially lifeboats who aren't paid for turning out.

 

[sarabande]

Quote from Aberdeen CG site
"So what can you do to safely dispose of marine pyrotechnics!

Hand them back to the Ships Chandler when you buy new ones as they have their own network and facilities to dispose of them.

If all else fails contact your local Coastguard MRCC / MRSC and they will arrange for you to take them to your local coastguard station where they will accept them for disposal.
Note the MRCC cannot accept out of date flares for disposal for health and safety reasons."

If they are dangerous to the highly trained CG, then they are dangerous to us, aren't they ?

"Sorry, captain, I can't fire this flare, 'cos it's out of date"

 

[T_C]

Earlier this year we took all our out-of-date flares to the local nick in Saltash, they were more than happy to take them off our hands.

 

[fidra]

I took an out-of-date pack of inshore flares to my local nick a couple of months ago. The sergeant there took them readily enough, but on my asking what they would do with them, he told me they would call the army bomb disposal team. I don't think he was joking.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I phoned our local police to ask advice and they said they would call the bomb squad. I am still waiting but this is Africa.

 

[snowleopard]

Just in case you hadn't picked up on my tongue in cheek reference, Paines Wessex hand-held whites were recalled earlier this year because one exploded, seriously injuring the user.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD OLD P-W HAND HELD WHITE FLARES BE FIRED.

 

[TheBoatman]

Very interesting point!

I don't know if I'm on the right track here or not but could the following apply?

1. Under the trades description act are flares sold as "distress" or "fireworks" pyrotechnics.

2. If the flare is sold as a distress signal is the master of the vessel now responsible for there correct usage?

3. If the master allows incorrect usage i.e. by firing them off ashore or when not in a rescue situation is he in contravention of the MS act?

Peter.

 

[Bergman]

I took a number of out of date flares to Coastguard station at South Shields earlier this year.

They were quite happy to accept them - no problem.

I certainly didn't fancy setting them off.

 

[sarabande]

No case history immediately available, but I shall look into the definitions, which may have a bearing on the last two points.


A starter may be
a banger it's not

Q2. These Regs are for Merchant Shipping, and I'd need a marine lawyer to comment on definitions of vessel and master. (We have had some discussion in previous posts about who is responsible for information management and "control" of the crew in a raggie or mobo. A case was clearly made that someone should be "in charge" even if nominally)

Q3. It seems that is the case, though can a master be held responsible if a junior crewperson decides to add to the pyrotechnic jollities, and lets off an old flare or two ? And that's without being "on board", where the master's jurisdiction may hold sway.

Maybe the RYA lawyers might have something to say ? I'll prod gently.

If a flare were discharged in an unauthorised fashion, resulting in a fatality, would there be a case for corporate negligence on a school or charter boat ? The corporate negligence legislation seems to bite with blunted teeth, though the insurance companies with whom we work are keen to sell very expensive cover to Exec Boards (which they almost always take up !)


All good Risk Management stuff !

 

[Cornishman]

Marine Guidance Note #287 (MGN 287) which you will find on the MCA website:-
MARINE GUIDANCE NOTE
MGN 287 (M+F)

Disposal Of Out of Date Pyrotechnics

Notice to all Shipowners, Masters, Officers, Fishermen, Leisure Craft, Shipping Service Providers, Marinas, Harbourmasters, Life Saving Equipment Servicing Stations, Chandlers and Suppliers

This notice supersedes MGN 256





For a printable version of this document, click here: MGN 287 (M+F) (PDF, 76KB)

Summary

This Marine Guidance Note advises on disposal of out of date marine pyrotechnics




NOTES:

a) It is an offence to fire distress-signal pyrotechnics on land, in harbour or at sea for either testing purposes, practice or as fireworks (whether the pyrotechnics are out of date or not).

b) It is also an offence to dump pyrotechnics at sea.

c) Out of date pyrotechnics should be landed ashore as soon as possible after the date of expiry for safe disposal.

This advice note provides guidance on the various options available for the disposal of out of date pyrotechnics:

1. some pyrotechnic suppliers, or their agent(s), may have a collection and disposal scheme in place and may be able to accept your out of date pyrotechnics;

2. ask a liferaft service station if they are able to take your out of date pyrotechnics as these service stations deal with the disposal of expired pyrotechnics on a regular basis;

3. ask the port, harbour or marina where your vessel is berthed if it will accept out of date pyrotechnics for disposal (a charge may be made).

HM Coastguard accepts some out of date pyrotechnics for storage at Coastguard sites prior to disposal. However, Coastguard storage facilities can only accommodate small stocks of out of date pyrotechnics and not large commercial stocks. Therefore, it is only able to store its own out of date pyrotechnics, those from the RNLI and those received directly from non-regulated pleasure vessels and small independent fishing vessels. Commercial organisations should make their own arrangements either with specialist hazardous waste disposal companies or contact the pyrotechnic manufacturer/supplier who may provide a disposal service.

Attention is drawn to the MCA leaflet: Port Waste Management Planning – A Guide to Good Practice, for further information.



Further Information

Further information on the contents of this Notice can be obtained from:

Search and Rescue Branch
Bay 1/07
Maritime and Coastguard Agency
Spring Place
105 Commercial Road
Southampton
SO15 1EG

Telephone: +44 (0) 23 8032 9332
Fax: +44 (0) 23 8032 9332

E-Mail: Roly.McKie@mcga.gov.uk







General Enquiries:
24 Hour Info Line
infoline@mcga.gov.uk
0870 600 6505

MCAWebsite Address:
Internet: http://www.mcga.gov-2.uk/-link

File Ref: 1/5/0026

Published: 03/2005

Crown Copyright 2005

Safer Lives, Safer Ships, Cleaner Seas







Tell us how we are doing Copyright Maritime and Coastguard Agency 2003-2004

 

[sarabande]

Aha, very handy, thanks v much. I wonder if Southampton has spoken with Aberdeen, though.

They don't quote the relevant legislation about land-based firing of pyrotechnics, and I have an enquiry with them at present. A lot of the MCA stuff is pious "they may do this" and "should be possible", but if pyros are banned on land, and idiotic use is banned at sea, I want to find out the full citations, otherwise it's just creeping empowerment of another Quango.

Thanks for the reference.

 

[Cornishman]

There was a case several years ago when an overexcited football fan fired a para red across the ground and it killed a fan on the other side of the pitch (Cardiff. I seem to remember). He was found guilty of murder and put away for a long time.

 

[ColinHuggins]

Had you heard the prolonged dialogue between the Pride of Bilbao and Solent CG the other night because a red flare had been sighted somewhere over Selsey then you would realise just how seriously letting off a distress signal is taken by the authorities.

If you do want to practice I would suggest no nearer the sea than, say, Ashby-de-la-Zouch.