Flares - demonstrating thereof and relevant legislation

pteron

pteron

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I attended an ISAF/RYA offshore safety course last weekend and much learning was enjoyed.

Part of the course involves a demonstration of flares and the chance to have a go. During the proceedings, an obviously unhappy gentleman (his face was almost the colour and luminosity of the red flares currently burning) remonstrated with our teacher declaring the demonstration illegal.

So I being I, looked for the legislation. There's an awful lot of pseudo legalistic statements banded about on web sites that should know better, e.g. MCA, RNLI and RYA, but interesting that none of them (that I could find) point to the chapter and verse of the legislation.

Fortunately, us being a democracy and all, the legislation is online - two bits of which appear relevant: the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/21 which has sod all to say about flares but does allow the Secretary of State to create statutory instruments, one of which is the Merchant Shipping (Distress Signals and Prevention of Collisions) Regulations 1996 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/75/made which does have something to say.

What it says quite plainly is:
Application

2.—(1) These Regulations apply to the following vessels—

(a)United Kingdom ships wherever they may be, and other ships while within the United Kingdom or the territorial waters thereof; and
(b)seaplanes registered in the United Kingdom and on the surface of water anywhere, and other seaplanes on the surface of water in the United Kingdom or the territorial waters thereof.
(2) In this regulation “ships” include hovercraft.
Click to expand...

So unless there are further laws applicable, the regulations clearly only apply on a boat.

Anyone know of other applicable laws? Real links to real laws please, not hearsay.
 
pteron said:
Anyone know of other applicable laws? Real links to real laws please, not hearsay.
Click to expand...
I've given this challenge to people in the past.
I've yet to be convinced there is a piece of legislation.
There is a piece of legislation relating to football grounds but that's about it.
The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985
All the other bits of legislation don't mention flares but require something else. i.e. Wasting Police time,
Criminal Damage, Arson etc
 
Talulah said:
I've given this challenge to people in the past.
I've yet to be convinced there is a piece of legislation.
There is a piece of legislation relating to football grounds but that's about it.
The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985
All the other bits of legislation don't mention flares but require something else. i.e. Wasting Police time,
Criminal Damage, Arson etc
Click to expand...

I think you're right.

Also, if it's illegal to set off red flares how come the RNLI can do it? There's nothing about dispensation in the Merchant Shipping Act and instruments.
 
Previous threads here and elsewhere have been unable to cite specific legislation. Possible "waste of police time" by making the police think that there is a real danger of safety of a person so give them a call first. If they say it's illegal then they should be able to say what legislation they would apply. Have fun!
 
https://www.gov.uk/fireworks-the-law

That's the closest I can find, Illegal to set-off fireworks in public. I *think* (would have to go check stock to be sure) that flares come under fireworks as a class 1.4 explosive....

Quote from a news Article in 2008 re the MCA's definition of illegal use:

Jim McWilliams, Head of Search and Rescue at the Maritime and Coastguard Agency said

"The firing of a red flare in a non distress situation is illegal under the Merchant Shipping Act and could divert valuable search and rescue assets away from a genuine search and rescue emergency. Helicopter and lifeboat crews stand ready to respond to real emergencies, not to be taken away from their own family gatherings to chase false flare reports. Marine distress flares are NOT fireworks, and if used incorrectly can be extremely dangerous.

The Merchant Shipping Act seems to be quoted all over the place in relation to illegal discharge of flares:

http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2012/08/31/police-warn-coastguard-supporters-not-to-fire-red-flares
 
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FishyInverness said:
Jim McWilliams, Head of Search and Rescue at the Maritime and Coastguard Agency said

"The firing of a red flare in a non distress situation is illegal under the Merchant Shipping Act
Click to expand...


If, according to pteron's research, you do it from a UK ship (or seaplane). Not if you stand in your mate's back garden on New Year's Eve like a portly Statue of Liberty, producing clouds of acrid smoke to choke all his guests who have come outside to watch the real fireworks :)

Pete
 
FishyInverness said:
https://www.gov.uk/fireworks-the-law

That's the closest I can find, Illegal to set-off fireworks in public. I *think* (would have to go check stock to be sure) that flares come under fireworks as a class 1.4 explosive....

Quote from a news Article in 2008 re the MCA's definition of illegal use:

Jim McWilliams, Head of Search and Rescue at the Maritime and Coastguard Agency said

"The firing of a red flare in a non distress situation is illegal under the Merchant Shipping Act and could divert valuable search and rescue assets away from a genuine search and rescue emergency. Helicopter and lifeboat crews stand ready to respond to real emergencies, not to be taken away from their own family gatherings to chase false flare reports. Marine distress flares are NOT fireworks, and if used incorrectly can be extremely dangerous.

The Merchant Shipping Act seems to be quoted all over the place in relation to illegal discharge of flares:

http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2012/08/31/police-warn-coastguard-supporters-not-to-fire-red-flares
Click to expand...

Thanks for the fireworks link - so even if they are counted as fireworks I can set it off in my back garden!

The MCA article you quote is a fine example of the pseudo legalistic claptrap I mentioned in my post. You can check the Merchant Shipping Act yourself - it's available as a pdf and a search within it will reveal that flares are mentioned exactly... you guessed it, zero times.

The subsequent instrument is the only reference I am able to find, hence my question to the learned panel.
 
pteron said:
Thanks for the fireworks link - so even if they are counted as fireworks I can set it off in my back garden!

The MCA article you quote is a fine example of the pseudo legalistic claptrap I mentioned in my post. You can check the Merchant Shipping Act yourself - it's available as a pdf and a search within it will reveal that flares are mentioned exactly... you guessed it, zero times.

The subsequent instrument is the only reference I am able to find, hence my question to the learned panel.
Click to expand...

Don't just look for the word "flares". It would seem from an earlier post that the infraction committed could be something like "emitting a false distress signal".

Be more ingenious in your search !!!!

Plomong
 
So funny sailors trying to find a loophole so the can waste rescue units time ... ;)

Read Collregs anex V
The use or exhibition of any of the foregoing signals except for the purpose of indicating distress
and need of assistance and the use of other signals which may be confused with any of the above
signals is prohibited
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According to Norwegian civil law you can get 3 months in jail or fines for misuse of distress signals (Almindelig borgerlig Straffelov (Straffeloven) § 349)

The Norwegian law says misuse of distress signals, so that would make it legal if rescue services was informed beforehand.
 
So let them off inland where a red flare is out of context. No problem. But then many firework rockets make red flares - is it illegal to let one of those off by the sea? Of course not. Just use your common dog where you set them off.
 
knuterikt said:
So funny sailors trying to find a loophole so the can waste rescue units time ... ;)

Read Collregs anex V


According to Norwegian civil law you can get 3 months in jail or fines for misuse of distress signals (Almindelig borgerlig Straffelov (Straffeloven) § 349)

The Norwegian law says misuse of distress signals, so that would make it legal if rescue services was informed beforehand.
Click to expand...

No not at all. Having now set off a handheld flare, I am convinced that you should not leave it until you are in distress before learning how to do it. Doing anything other than 'the right thing' could leave you, your crew, your boat or life boat with very serious burns. The flare burns perfectly happily under water and the stick bit glows red hot.

So sir, your statement is incorrect and offensive.

Maybe it's different in Norway, but in the UK, the COLREGs are only law because they have been ratified and brought into law. The statutory instrument does that. It has the proviso that I quoted above, so your annexe V again only applies on ships.
 
Plomong said:
Don't just look for the word "flares". It would seem from an earlier post that the infraction committed could be something like "emitting a false distress signal".

Be more ingenious in your search !!!!

Plomong
Click to expand...

I searched for many terms - I was simplifying to make a point.
 
MASH said:
So let them off inland where a red flare is out of context. No problem. But then many firework rockets make red flares - is it illegal to let one of those off by the sea? Of course not. Just use your common dog where you set them off.
Click to expand...

In Hyde Park perhaps, but not for mountain cimbers/walkers surely?
 
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