Flares-again proof they work

Re: More evidence

[ QUOTE ]
I just wanted to understand what has changed, because I don't see it in his posts.

[/ QUOTE ] Apologies for my cheap and needlessly rude attempt at humour.

TOTH will surely correct me if I'm wrong, but I took his statement to be a retreat, sorry, no, re-orientation of his starting position which was to argue that the various functions of flares were performed more effectively by technologically more advanced devices, concluding with: [ QUOTE ]
I think six totally indepentent (sic) methods of emergency communication is enough.

[/ QUOTE ] While there is perhaps unanimous support for the view that the EPIRB and DSC radio have knocked flares off the top perch, he seems to have acknowledged that flares retain a place in a boat's safety inventory, if only as a back-up to other devices.

(And before you lot jump on me - it is not my view that flares are only a back-up: vide posts on pinpointing the position of a distressed vessel for approaching rescuers.)
 
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Of course, if you are going to spend all of your time sitting in front of a computer screen arguing with other keyboard warriors, the argument as to which is more useful, flares or epirbs, becomes somewhat redundant........
 
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I suppose one could vote on a ranking.

What would you first attempt to use in an emergency, assuming you had all means aboard?

I bet it would depend on the circumstances.

I'm trying to think of one where I would choose lighting a flare before the using DSC radio.
 
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What next? GPS or charts? Jacket or Saloupettes?

As the man said, which is nicer, beetroot, or ham?
 
Re: More evidence

[ QUOTE ]
Of course, if you are going to spend all of your time sitting in front of a computer screen arguing with other keyboard warriors,

[/ QUOTE ] You're right - it's only 6 weeks to relaunch, the rudder's off and waiting for a coat of epoxy, the bilge pump needs taking apart, pulpit needs refitting, rubbing strake to fit, deck to sand and repaint . . . OMG!

"But it's so cold outside."

"Well, in that case, get on with correcting the charts, you idle anchor."

Byeee. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Re: More evidence

From the two examples given.

On the downed helicopter 500 metres away from the rig, I guess a hand held radio or powerful torch would not have worked then ?

Re the fishing boat.

My conclusion is that the thing that saved the survivor's life was the 21st centuary safety feature not the flares. Had the liferaft not automatically deployed he would not be found alive, no matter how many flares he had in the cabin.

If he had an Eprib in the life raft the outcome would have been no different, and the only question in my mind is whether you can buy a hand held Radio that would have alerted local boats, and given the survivor the added benefit of knowing rescue was underway, and if he had a hand held GPS the ability to pinpoint his position.

As I have said before, I make no criticism of those who wish to carry flares, and I can see an argument for those who cross oceans to have them, but for most coastal skippers there are some good 21st centuary alternatives.
 
Re: More evidence

[ QUOTE ]
In what way has your position changed?

[/ QUOTE ]

For some time I was of the view that flares were ineffective, but it was best to have them even if several better alternatives were always to hand. The combination of viewing a flares demo for the first time in yonks and these recent flare threads have made me decide that for me, personally, the balance has changed and the drawbacks are significant enough to leave them ashore.
 
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I note from other threads that you are one of the forumites who actively encourage Mike Perham in what many of us believe is a foolhardy effort to enter the Southern Ocean as winter approaches.
I won't ask you to try to reconcile those two positions - eliminating the risk of using flares while encouraging risky behaviour by someone else.
What I would like to ask is: Should I take it that you would encourage young Mike not only to set off for the Southern Ocean, but also that you would encourage him to do so without any flares on board? To reduce his risk, of course.
 
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"Somali pirates opened fire with rocket launchers on a Fred Olsen line cruise ship, carrying more than 1,000 Brits in the Gulf of Aden. The 43,000 ton Balmoral was forced to zig-zag as it tried to avoid being boarded by the gang, The Sun's Neil Syson reports.

The crew sent up distress flares to alert Royal Navy warships."
 
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Yes I saw that TK and was waiting till someone brought it up. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

"Alarmed by the 'suspicious' activity of the unidentified craft, the Balmoral's crew made emergency calls, holiday firm Fred Olsen Cruise Lines said today.
They also sent up distress flares and the ship's staff toted fake 'guns' made out of pieces of wood, hoping the pirates would be deterred if crew appeared to be armed, according to reports."

You are correct, flares are useful at making Somali pirates think you have firearms.

Of course in the Solent

1. There are not that many Somali Pirates
2. You are more likely to be arrested by our brave boys in blue for misuse of a firearm /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Of course, if I had my own laser guided missile launcher on the foredeck I am sure it would do an even better job of disuading pirates /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif (See I knew there was a 21st centuary answer).

However as Dogwatch pointed out not everyone can afford all these new fangled toys, so maybe I should retain the flares as a deterrant, do you think my cries of "I have some out of date flares and I'm not trained to use them" will do the trick. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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[ QUOTE ]
Of course in the Solent

1. There are not that many Somali Pirates

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you sailed the Solent recently? at least the Solmali pirates want you alive which is more than some of the solent racing lot, or weekend sunsail warriors /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
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[ QUOTE ]
So what safety equipment do you have on your boat ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Currently none whatsoever. If you ask me again in a month I hope the answer will be different.
 
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[ QUOTE ]
do you think my cries of "I have some out of date flares and I'm not trained to use them" will do the trick. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Should work fine in the Solent.
 
Re: More evidence

[ QUOTE ]
"Alarmed by the 'suspicious' activity of the unidentified craft, the Balmoral's crew made emergency calls, holiday firm Fred Olsen Cruise Lines said today.
They also sent up distress flares and the ship's staff toted fake 'guns' made out of pieces of wood, hoping the pirates would be deterred if crew appeared to be armed, according to reports."

[/ QUOTE ]

Meanwhile on a pirate ship shadowing the cruise liner:

"Hey look Abdul, they look like they have guns!"
(then as a distress rocket goes off)
"For the love of Alla! They are shooting at us now!"
"Ok Ali, let 'em have the rocket propelled grenades! They asked for it!"

I wounder how the result of that would have read in the papers as the blue rinse brigade scattered! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Re: More evidence

Darn it, you are right.

OK I have changed my mind again, firing rockets at Somali Pirates will only annoy them. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

What about the Solent pirates, what's the best line of attack there ? By the sound of it, paint the boat in sunsail colours and appear to be racing ? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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