Flare Pistol

[byron]

<font color=blue>Flare Pistols in my opinion are far more user friendly in time of distress than flares. A gun licence for one of these is obtained free of charge by applying in the normal way to your local police force. However in these days of gun mania where only ciminals have a firearm both the pistol and the licence may be difficult to obtain.
Having said the above I believe the pistol can be bought over the counter in France. I wonder therefore if one was in France with one's boat and a pistol/ammo was bought. What would be the legal position arriving back in the UK. Because I believe once aboard the craft the pistol becomes legally part of your safety equipment and stays legal without a licence as long as one doesn't take it ashore. Are there any legal dudes that can confirm or deny this?

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[trev]

So far as I can tell yer flare pistol is no longer a part of SOLAS, and only SOLAS approved hand flares/parachute flares/smoke floats etc should be carried.
Also pretty sure the old Very pistol was regarded as a firearm (could be bloody lethal if you wanted it to be) and had to be licensed accordingly wherever it was - even on a British ship - although I haven't seen one for many years, except on some dodgy rather elderly Flag-of Convenience vessels.
Personally I wouldn't want one within a mile of my boat.

Trev

 

[ChrisP]

Think trev's right. But how could anybody question the a government who's knee jerk reaction was to ban all legally owned hand guns to protect the public but still allows the sale of explosives and propellants to the unlicenced general public to celebrate a terrorist plot.

ChrisP

What do you mean the sea gull in front's walking !!!

 

[qsiv]

I'm sure you would be in breach as soon as you enter territorial waters, as you would be in posession without a licence. The fact that you intened to acquire a licence counts for nought. I saw a recent case where a barrister was fined in similar circumstances - he missed his renewal date, went to remedy situation and was promptly charged. The guns were in a locked cabinet, and he posessed no ammunition (indeed the ammunition was no longer made!)

 

[Guest]

I would think that if you had a flare pistol you would be under the same duty of care as people who are licensed to 'keep firearms' at home, this could lead to expensive security measures having to be put in place, e.g. gun safe. Does anyone know if this is the case, and also what the rules are for the safe storage of flares (explosives) on an unoccupied boat. It would be like a burglar being hurt in your house suing you, could someone who went on your boat, fiddles with flares and had a nasty accident sue you? I don't have a safe on board, do I need one?

 

[byron]

<font color=blue>Here lies the crunch. You see traditionally the Master of a vessel often had a small armoury. In my day we had an old army .303 rifle and a Smith & Wesson .38. I believe that a British Registered vessel was allowed to have similar but needed a licence to take it (them) ashore for maintenance or any other reason, but was quite legal with them aboard. Remarks about flag of convenience etc. bear no weight as every U.S. ship carries side arms as do vessels traversing known piracy waters. In answer to Grumpy1's query on a safe. All ships have a safe aboard as standard, this is usually located in the Master's cabin or saloon.
I do know this. The matter was brought up in the House of Lords when they were revising gun law in 1997 and I think it was decided that the law didn't need altering for vessels BUT! back to square one... what is the law. Is the Flare Pistol legal while aboard but illegal if taken ashore?
I am not interested in what SOLAS regs are. As an experienced mariner I would prefer a flare pistol.

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[qsiv]

Byron

My Old Man ran into this issue - he had a WWII Verey pistol on the boat, without a license, all legit in those days. The pistol was classified as a firearm, and as such he required a licence to purchase ammunition (flare cartridges) as he would 'be in possession' whilst he transported them to the boat.

He entered into a detailed and earnest discussion (!!!) but failed to convince either Plod or the vendor of the cartridges. He then persuauded Plod to come to the farm we lived, and let loose a parachute rockeet at 20 paces into a straw effigy. The rocket came out the far side, and he then asked Plod why a Verey cartridge was considered more dangerous. He didnt win his argument, but did feel he had made his point.

I believe in those days even the pen ejector style flares technically required a licence, although that has now been changed.

 

[byron]

<font color=blue>I can see that purchasing ammo would present a problem as the vendor will require the licence. BUT these too can be bought when one's boat is in France and unlike flares they will not require replacing every so often. Apart from which they only cost a few pence anyway.


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[trev]

'All US vessels carry sidearms' - as do ' vessels traversing known pirate waters ??' I don't think so!!
The sidearms on British Merchant ships were a throw back from years gone by and I haven't come across it since I was second mate, I think they were removed in the 1970s. I've also worked for several US companies and they've been particularly adamant about firearms on board. The only thing we had was a line throwing gun, this shot out brass rods which were a great deterent to boarders off West Africa one time - but that's another story.
I think you'll find you will need the required permit for any type of firearm on yer boat, no matter where you bought it. If your caught with a firearm on a British ship you still face the law.
Still can't think why you want one though, except that they're shiny. - but you can't have one - so there!!

Trev

 

[kgi]

I was told that once it was on board it became part of the ships inventory, mind you with the way they are now it would be as well to talk to amarine lawyer.....keith

 

[syd]

I want one of those. My old double barrelled sawn off shot gu........ erm FLARE gun is a bit heavy and bulky for hiding under me donkey jacket..... er, I mean Carrying under my Compass Windbreaker.

 

[byron]

<font color=blue>All you gotta do is drop your Dacks and point yer Bum at them Syd. That'd frighten the life out of anyone.

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[milltech]

I carried one aboard until about 1990 when I sold that particular boat. My firearms licence has now lapsed though I presume it could be renewed. The Very Pistol was actually my brothers but the boat was mine so we both had licences to avoid any issues.



John
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[Col]

If memory serves,They come under shotgun licencing.

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[Renegade_Master]

Add a safe and she definately wont move

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[tr7v8]

Yes' it would, straight DOWN.....

Glug

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Jim
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[Guest]

Oi ! I thought we cut wrists, held them against each other and swore allegiance to each other and MOBO, now you are being mean, just because you two have bigger screens than me /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif Ok I admit I let slip about the net curtains onhis boat, but that was a genuine mistake, just pretend I was talking about fishing nets nobody will know, can you forward this PM to Clive, I don't know how to do it.

Cheers

 

[byron]

<font color=blue>To send a PM to someone just click on their name

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[Guest]

Oh dear, that was meant to be a PM, but it went on here /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif Now everyone knows about the net curtains /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

[BarryH]

Being a shotgun cert and firearm cert holder I've spoken to my FLO about this in the past. They were akin to a shotgun but didn't come under the shotgun umbrella because the barrel is less tha 24 inches long. They came under the firearm cert. Since they banned handguns a few years ago, the flare pistol was also banned. Itwas mainly becuase that "they" thought it could be used as a weapon as well as a distress signal.
Still sinse all handguns and full auto firearms are now banned the statistics show that there has been an increase in gun related crime using full auto and hanguns. How many of those crimes have been commited with flare guns? Of course it was always the registered holders commintting the crimes wasn't it!!!! Typical government reaction, hit the easy target first. And it cost the taxpayer over 10 times the estimated cost in compensation. Wouldn't it have been better to spend that money on stopping the illegal import and use of firearms, or is that too obvious.

Sorry Rant Over