Flag etiquette

BelleSerene said:
It's changed somewhat over the years... before 16 something we used to take them as prizes if they didn't lower their colours and topsail to ours!
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Actually I think they took more of ours than we did of theirs.:ambivalence:
There are some splendid paintings hanging in the Amsterdam Maritime museum, 95% similar to the ones we have in our various museums. Just that the ones on fire or sinking in the Amsterdam museum are all English. Vice versa in Greenwich!
 
BelleSerene said:
I apologise most profoundly for my ignorance - it keeps getting the better of me.

I wonder if when you saluted those foreign heads of state you were on HM's service? If so, that was your job and hardly evidence that private yachts are supposed to salute foreign heads of state.

Either way, and bananas aside, I wonder if you can point me to a reference that proposes a yachts should salute foreign royal vessels? (There are plenty suggesting you should salute foreign warships.)
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Goodness me, you are actually serious about this aren't you? You poor chap.

But, not least as this is proving quite fun and I suspect your ignorance isn't helped by a certain inability (or reluctance) to read, try the document quoted and referenced at post 12 on this thread. Of course one could just be courteous to one's host nation rather than feeling then need to find some sort of statute, but I'm guessing that sort of concept might stretch your cognitive abilities.
 
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Manners maketh Man.

To the OP - If in your view dipping one's ensign is the yottie equivalent of doffing one's cap in respectful acknowledgement (which personally I think it is) then dip your ensign. Politeness costs nothing, wins friends, makes things happen and makes the world a better place. Ignore those that consider the movement of coloured material up and down lays us prostrate in submission. Our aggressive society struggles to differentiate respectful acknowledgement from inferred deferral. Regrettably we're more likely to receive the two fingered salute than any other form of acknowledgement in this country these days - and we're poorer for it.
 
Robih said:
Manners maketh Man.

To the OP - If in your view dipping one's ensign is the yottie equivalent of doffing one's cap in respectful acknowledgement (which personally I think it is) then dip your ensign. Politeness costs nothing, wins friends, makes things happen and makes the world a better place. Ignore those that consider the movement of coloured material up and down lays us prostrate in submission. Our aggressive society struggles to differentiate respectful acknowledgement from inferred deferral. Regrettably we're more likely to receive the two fingered salute than any other form of acknowledgement in this country these days - and we're poorer for it.
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:encouragement: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.:cool:
 
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I do hope the OP will come back after the event (imminent?) and tell us what happened. I feel sure that, if noticed, a polite gesture would be appreciated by the recipients of the courtesy.
 
Daydream believer said:
With all this talk of dipping ensigns may i ask exactly how one dips an ensign that is on a bit of stick about 4 feet above sea level anyway
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I ask my son to take the stick out of its socket and lower it until said stick is horizontal, this still seems to work with HM Ships. It actually is always a little emotional for me as I used to do the same for my late father, who as an NS Royal Marine had apparently at one point had the job of standing by the ensign on one of HM Ships as she entered or exited harbour awaiting instructions to acknowledge dipped ensigns from passing yachts.
 
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Elecglitch said:
Goodness me, you are actually serious about this aren't you? You poor chap.

But, not least as this is proving quite fun and I suspect your ignorance isn't helped by a certain inability (or reluctance) to read, try the document quoted and referenced at post 12 on this thread. Of course one could just be courteous to one's host nation rather than feeling then need to find some sort of statute, but I'm guessing that sort of concept might stretch your cognitive abilities.
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Let us try to read the document you refer to:
It is customary for yachts to salute the following: All Royal Yachts; all warships, both British and foreign; Flag Officers of a yacht club when the yacht making the salute is wearing the burgee of that club.

​
Now you could choose to read 'all Royal yachts' as meaning foreign ones too. But the next phrase - 'all warships, both British and foreign' - makes clear that that's not what it means. And it's this same designation that is made by other sources.

Or we could read the OP: he doesn't ask whether he may dip his ensign as the Dutch royal yacht sails by, or whether it's a jolly nice thing to do that no-one is going to object to - he asks if he should. The answer is 'no'! It is not the case that he 'should' dip his ensign in this situation.

In fact, it's all the more so, as he also says he'll be moored in the harbour. Ships that are moored don't salute passing ships. Do they, now? Not that you may not, but it's not reasonable to tell the OP that he should. Which is what he asked.
 
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Back in the 60's I was cruising somewhere off the Netherlands coast and the Dutch royal yacht appeared. We dipped our ensign, and she dipped in acknowledgement. Mind you, nobody had to run aft, chap just leaned out of the wheelhouse and pulled a bit of string - bit like a more-or-less horizontal flag halliard.

A year or two later we had an awkward moment in Amsterdam. We were a tiny, dismasted ( that is a long story for another time ) yacht tied up to a harbour wall. Immediately ahead of us was a Dutch Destroyer, it was getting late and ensign lowering time approached. A group of 8 or so seamen appeared on the destroyers quarterdeck and milled about. Obvious conscripts, long hair poking out from berets. One of them was balancing his rifle on the palm of his hand like a music hall act, they all shuffled about until a serious looking petty officer appeared and barked at 'em when they formed two lines and behaved. Quandary: I know that I have to lower my ensign and take the time from the senior ship, but how can I do this without appearing to send the ceremony up: the lowering possibility for us is about six inches, there is a small crowd standing on the quay waiting, and I don't want to create an international incident.

In the end it was ok. The destroyer behaved seriously, we behaved seriously, there were a few giggles on shore, the petty officer leaned over the rail and told us which bar he'd be in that evening, and all was well. It got a bit unwell later, but that was due to the huge variety of different flavours of Dutch gin .............
 
Elecglitch said:
You really are a very unfulfilled individual aren't you? I'm bored with you now.
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If you want to be gratuitously rude, fill your boots. If you're going to be gratuitously rude and wrong at the same time, don’t be surprised when the person you were rude to points out that you were wrong. When you then don’t even make a point about the topic but just carry on being rude, you're wasting your time as everyone already knows you’re both rude and wrong.
 
capnsensible said:
Remove stick from holder. Dip stick.
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BelleSerene said:
If you want to be gratuitously rude, fill your boots. If you're going to be gratuitously rude and wrong at the same time, don’t be surprised when the person you were rude to points out that you were wrong. When you then don’t even make a point about the topic but just carry on being rude, you're wasting your time as everyone already knows you’re both rude and wrong.
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I put it on ignore ages ago. I suspect its sockpuppet anyway.
 
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