macd
Well-Known Member
...and, for the 'doff it at dusk' brigade, it doesn't stop being the law at night.
Flag etiquette
- Thread starter Scotty_Tradewind
- Start date
...and, for the 'doff it at dusk' brigade, it doesn't stop being the law at night.
nortada
Well-Known Member
Absolutely - here in Portugal no national maritime + Portuguese courtesy flag 24/7 = in the pooo! Hence my red duster @ dusk/2100 hours comment earlier, which wasn't aimed at anybody in particular
Zen Zero
Well-Known Member
I've never been anywhere where anyone gives a frig about flags. I've been told that they attach a great deal of importance to the condition of your courtesy flag in Greece, but we recently bought a new one and have never had an encounter with the authorities there.
In our single unpleasant encounter with the Italian Coast Guard, they didn't notice our ensign until we pointed it out to them and even then they didn't know what it meant and asked to see my sailing license.
I'm surprised to learn here that some laws require a 24 hour display. I was always taught that it was extremely disrespectful to mistreat a flag, by leaving it up all night for example.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Ensigns
The Red Ensign, as currently used by the United Kingdom's Merchant Navy.
Main article: Ensign
Ensigns are usually required to be flown when entering and leaving harbour, when sailing through foreign waters, and when the ship is signalled to do so by a warship. Warships usually fly their ensigns between the morning colours ceremony and sunset when moored or at anchor, at all times when underway, and at all times when engaged in battle—the "battle ensign". When engaged in battle a warship often flies multiple battle ensigns. This tradition dates from the era of sailing vessels. Tradition dictated that if a ship lowered its ensign it was deemed to have surrendered. Masts were targets of gunfire, and the second and subsequent ensigns were flown in order to keep the ensign flying even after a mast hit.
Jacks
Chilean Navy Jack
See also: Media related to Naval jacks at Wikimedia Commons
Jacks are additional national flags flown by warships (and certain other vessels) at the head of the ship. These are usually flown while not under way and when the ship is dressed on special occasions. Jacks in the Royal Navy must be run up when the first line is ashore when coming alongside.
In the United Kingdom's Royal Navy, the Union Jack (also known as the Union Flag) at sea serves both as a naval jack and as the rank flag of an Admiral of the Fleet. It is illegal for a merchant ship or yacht to fly the Union Flag, but permissible to fly a civilian jack (sometimes known as the pilot jack as it was formerly used to request a pilot) that consists of the Union Jack with a white border. The St George's Cross flown from the jack staff is known as the Dunkirk jack, and is customarily flown by ships and boats which took part in the Dunkirk evacuation operation in 1940. The flying of the St George's Cross elsewhere on a civilian ship is illegal, as it is the rank flag of a full Admiral.[citation needed]
The Red Ensign, as currently used by the United Kingdom's Merchant Navy.
Main article: Ensign
Ensigns are usually required to be flown when entering and leaving harbour, when sailing through foreign waters, and when the ship is signalled to do so by a warship. Warships usually fly their ensigns between the morning colours ceremony and sunset when moored or at anchor, at all times when underway, and at all times when engaged in battle—the "battle ensign". When engaged in battle a warship often flies multiple battle ensigns. This tradition dates from the era of sailing vessels. Tradition dictated that if a ship lowered its ensign it was deemed to have surrendered. Masts were targets of gunfire, and the second and subsequent ensigns were flown in order to keep the ensign flying even after a mast hit.
Jacks
Chilean Navy Jack
See also: Media related to Naval jacks at Wikimedia Commons
Jacks are additional national flags flown by warships (and certain other vessels) at the head of the ship. These are usually flown while not under way and when the ship is dressed on special occasions. Jacks in the Royal Navy must be run up when the first line is ashore when coming alongside.
In the United Kingdom's Royal Navy, the Union Jack (also known as the Union Flag) at sea serves both as a naval jack and as the rank flag of an Admiral of the Fleet. It is illegal for a merchant ship or yacht to fly the Union Flag, but permissible to fly a civilian jack (sometimes known as the pilot jack as it was formerly used to request a pilot) that consists of the Union Jack with a white border. The St George's Cross flown from the jack staff is known as the Dunkirk jack, and is customarily flown by ships and boats which took part in the Dunkirk evacuation operation in 1940. The flying of the St George's Cross elsewhere on a civilian ship is illegal, as it is the rank flag of a full Admiral.[citation needed]
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
The 24 hour display of the ensign applies at sea. Some countries (mainly Mediterranean) interpret being at anchor as being at sea.
In port, nothing wrong with taking it down at dusk, when you're not aboard or whatever...
Zen Zero
Well-Known Member
That is so unfair! The Scots get to wave their blue and white "Mike" flag about wherever they want (what they're saying is "I'm not English"). A visiting sassenach can make himself welcome in Scotland by hoisting it as a courtesy flag. But an Englishman, rightly proud of his distinct identity, is not allowed to proclaim it with his own national flag, and similarly, a visiting Scottish boat is not allowed to acknowledge her hosts' hospitality with a similar gesture.
This is an iniquitous wrong and the time has come to right it!
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Moonshining
Well-Known Member
It's the Texas flag - which admittedly does look very like the Chilean one.
GrahamM376
Well-Known Member
Not over here, on visiting (not local) boats flags have to be flown 24/7 whether on board or not or, risk fine. This is a drug and people smuggling area and they want to be able to identify foreign vessels even to the extent of regularly going round anchorages/moorings marinas with camera, filming us all. Boat yard even has to provide photo of boat along with copy of owners passport and SSR/Part1 to police, on haul out.
Tmacd
Well-Known Member
My understanding, confirmed on the RYA website, says the Red Ensign is the correct flag, not the Union Flag!
"Most countries use their national flag at sea and it is therefore not uncommon to sees a foreign visitor flying a union jack as a courtesy flag when visiting UK waters. This is however wrong; the correct flag is always a Red Ensign."
Zen Zero
Well-Known Member
Tmacd
Well-Known Member
It's all in hand, ZZ. Wee 'Eck is sorting the referendum, and after 2014 comes Independance! Mibbe we'll get the old Scottish ensign officially again! You Sassenachs can put your own house in order, surely?
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scottie
Well-Known Member
The fisherman owner of one of the marklaying boats at Scottish series found a nice new saltire and flew it at masthead whilst standing by the gybe mark and could not understand the request to remove it from the PRO.
Could have had been an interesting evening for the protest committee.
Saltire is code flag M which in racing rules indicates that vessel is replacing the adjacent mark.
Could have had been an interesting evening for the protest committee.
Saltire is code flag M which in racing rules indicates that vessel is replacing the adjacent mark.
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
And Turkey in some harbours and marinas so I'm told.
In fact until recently one marina gave out a new turkish pennant every year to their foreign registered vessels.
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sailorman
Well-Known Member
If the sweaties want to fly M from their transom i suggest the go back over the wall & do it
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Yes, Texan on board or someone who likes Texas, rightly putting the more important US flag above. On the right hand side you put flags for your club, of which Scotland seems to be one these days. Of course if it's in Scotland they may be flying it as a courtesy if there is a red duster on the stern, just like I sometimes put a county flag up on the starboard but the Cornish one is always on the port for me
sailorgirl
Well-Known Member
For flag etiquette vs the local law try here in Dubai... according to the Coast Guard (who issue our sailing permits) the ensign to fly is based on the nationality of the owner not the country of registration so my Irish friend has to fly an Irish ensign on her boat despite it being registered locally, plus a UAE courtesy flag.
Zen Zero
Well-Known Member
So this is wrong:-
This is the courtesy flag being hoisted by a cadette on the Russian Sail Training Ship Mir during morning colours at sea between Greenock and Stornoway during the 2011 Tall Ships Races.
This is the courtesy flag being hoisted by a cadette on the Russian Sail Training Ship Mir during morning colours at sea between Greenock and Stornoway during the 2011 Tall Ships Races.
Jamesuk
Well-Known Member
No
But
The sooner someone develops the 'electric self furling /unfurlng, automatic gps controlled' flag staff the better!!!!!
I was thinking of getting one of those bendy Samsung screens to have in place of the flag staff so when it is time (in harbour ) to have the ensign on show it would just be displayed on the screen. In a pbreeze it would even flap. Technology today is great
Jamesuk
Well-Known Member
So this is wrong:-
This is the courtesy flag being hoisted by a cadette on the Russian Sail Training Ship Mir during morning colours at sea between Greenock and Stornoway during the 2011 Tall Ships Races.
You know i think it is wrong, it should be a red ensign flag
"Civil Ensign "Red Duster" [1:2]
The Red Ensign is the appropriate courtesy flag for civilian ships visiting UK waters. Government and naval vessels should use the Blue and White Ensigns respectively."http://www.flags.net/UNKG.htm
Tmacd
Well-Known Member
I think it's wrong on three counts:
1. It should be a Red Ensign, as you suggest. See my post No 29 and the quote from the RYA website!
2. The flag is in incorrect colours! Being a Scot, and having a pedantic view on our own national flag whose blue should be Pantone 300, I also know the blue in the Union Flag should be Pantone 280, which is a darker blue than in the photo!
3. The flag is upside down! The broader white part of the Saltire behind the red should be uppermost next to the hoist!