Flag Etiquette

[TamarMike]

Perhaps there should be a special flag which means Please take the rest of my flags seriously.

Isn't that the blue ensign - which is just what the boat Mr Toad saw was wearing so is fair game for criticism.

For the rest of us with red ensigns or undressed we can fly anything apart from a national flag wherever we want unless we choose to follow Hettie Kate (who's she?)

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Fair do's if someone is interested in flags - whatever floats your boat.

Personally, I din't think it matters if you want to fly a pair of trousers from the spreaders, it's up to you in my opinion. However, I am slightly miffed that I cannot fly my national flag if I want to because it is against the law, may offend someone or whatever. Stupid law, should be changed and taking offense at anything anyone does or says is just a waste of brain activity.

And, I do not think climate change is man-made either.
End of rant.

 

[Fascadale]

I like flags, the more the merrier

There was even another one on the back end of the boat.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Personally, I din't think it matters if you want to fly a pair of trousers from the spreaders, it's up to you in my opinion. However, I am slightly miffed that I cannot fly my national flag if I want to because it is against the law, may offend someone or whatever.

First thing I did when I bought my new boat - Part 1 registered - was to get a nice big Scottish red ensign made for her. And a Welsh courtesy flag, since she's in Milford Haven for now. I'll take my chances with the law - prosecution for flying a Scottish flag would be politically quite entertaining.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Isn't that the blue ensign - which is just what the boat Mr Toad saw was wearing so is fair game for criticism.

A blue ensign normally means this one looked prettier in the chandlers.

A defaced blue one means in my yacht club, women are only allowed in dining room on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays (and on Fridays as long as they don't step off the carpeted area) as long as they are accompanied by two males members, one of whom must have served no fewer than three but no more than six terms on the committee, for which calculation years spent as flag officers count double, except for rear commodore, which does not count unless the member concerned joined before the Silver Jubilee, in which case ... (cont p96)

 

[johnalison]

The point about flags is that it gives a clue as to the skipper's qualities. Just as I would avoid parking adjacent to a dirty car with missing wheel trim, I can use a boat's flags to tell me whether it is likely to cause me trouble. For example a club-less Bavaria with a tiny ensign is probably on charter, and a boat that doesn't care what it puts up probably doesn't care about its seamanship, or even marina-manners either.

 

[Lakesailor]

Particularly dangerous waters you are sailing into there.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

The RYA say this:
http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/regssafety/Pages/flagetiquette.aspx

That seems clear enough to me but just to check:

Is the RNSA flag a house flag?

Can it be flown above a club burgee on the Starboard Spreader?

Should the RNSA be flown from the Port Spreader and the Club Burgee flown from the Starboard?

Errr, thanks for all the response and chat.

...but could someone just answer my three questions?

(I have searched YBW and didn't find the answers.)

 

[johnalison]

I think the answers are (not being a member of RNSA)
The RNSA has a flag which can be flown as a burgee
It has not been traditional to fly more than a single burgee when under way but current advice is less rigid.
If the warrant for the blue ensign is associated with the RNSA then the RNSA flag should be flown as a burgee, at the masthead or starboard. If not, it would be preferable not to fly two burgees together, and certainly not if the warrant pertains to a club junior to the RNSA.

I believe that any flag, whether a club burgee or not, counts as a house flag if flown in addition to a burgee correctly flown.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Many thanks for the first relevant answer!

It has not been traditional to fly more than a single burgee when under way but current advice is less rigid.

Right so the RYA are just a bit out of date when they say: Only one burgee may be flown on the vessel... ...no other flag may be flown above the burgee on the same halyard..

If the warrant for the blue ensign is associated with the RNSA then the RNSA flag should be flown as a burge

Understood. So if you fly the blue then the RNAS flag must be flown as a burgee and not a house flag.

I believe that any flag, whether a club burgee or not, counts as a house flag if flown in addition to a burgee correctly flown.

Right.

So probably this guy was as close to correct as he can really get, but for optimum correctness he could bin the other club Burgee.

Ta!

 

[Ubergeekian]

The point about flags is that it gives a clue as to the skipper's qualities. Just as I would avoid parking adjacent to a dirty car with missing wheel trim, I can use a boat's flags to tell me whether it is likely to cause me trouble. For example a club-less Bavaria with a tiny ensign is probably on charter, and a boat that doesn't care what it puts up probably doesn't care about its seamanship, or even marina-manners either.

How do you distinguish between a boat that "doesn't care what it puts up" and a boat which simply doesn't agree with you on how to put things up?

Me, I just assume that people who have time to spend worrying about flag etiquette probably don't have much time to go sailing. Which is fine.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I think the answers are (not being a member of RNSA)
The RNSA has a flag which can be flown as a burgee
It has not been traditional to fly more than a single burgee when under way but current advice is less rigid.
If the warrant for the blue ensign is associated with the RNSA then the RNSA flag should be flown as a burgee, at the masthead or starboard. If not, it would be preferable not to fly two burgees together, and certainly not if the warrant pertains to a club junior to the RNSA.

I believe that any flag, whether a club burgee or not, counts as a house flag if flown in addition to a burgee correctly flown.

What makes one club senior to another? Who decides on the order?

What makes one flag a house flag and another a burgee?

 

[Moodyjim]

A blue ensign normally means this one looked prettier in the chandlers.

A defaced blue one means in my yacht club, women are only allowed in dining room on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays (and on Fridays as long as they don't step off the carpeted area) as long as they are accompanied by two males members, one of whom must have served no fewer than three but no more than six terms on the committee, for which calculation years spent as flag officers count double, except for rear commodore, which does not count unless the member concerned joined before the Silver Jubilee, in which case ... (cont p96)

Ah! The old politics of envy/inverted class snobbery argument again. Haven't heard this one since Gordon Brown last opened his mouth.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Ah! The old politics of envy/inverted class snobbery argument again. Haven't heard this one since Gordon Brown last opened his mouth.

Why do you think I would envy those whose yacht clubs have arcanely complicated rules?

 

[Searush]

What makes one club senior to another? Who decides on the order?

What makes one flag a house flag and another a burgee?

Seniority is pretty simple - it is age dependant. The age of a club is based on the date of its inaugauration - or for clubs holding a Royal warrant, the date the warrant was granted.

One can easily be a member of 2 clubs entitled to wear a Blue Ensign, and there are guidelines about which should be worn when. As already pointed out, one wears the senior club's ensign & the relevant burgee at the masthead. Secondary club burgees can then be flown as house flags.

So, if the boat in question was flying an ensign other than the RNSA one, then it should have the correct burgee at the masthead & the RNSA burgee becomes a house flag. I hope this is clear it seems pretty simple to me & I have only read up about in the last few years when I happened to choose a mooring site adjacent to the Senior Yacht club of Wales. This doesn't impress me much, but it is a very family friendly club in an 800 year old clubhouse. I understand it thoroughly annoys members or the Royal Anglesey tho', as they are more active & more racing focussed and therefore think they are better than mere family cruising types.

 

[ccscott49]

A blue ensign normally means this one looked prettier in the chandlers.

A defaced blue one means in my yacht club, women are only allowed in dining room on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays (and on Fridays as long as they don't step off the carpeted area) as long as they are accompanied by two males members, one of whom must have served no fewer than three but no more than six terms on the committee, for which calculation years spent as flag officers count double, except for rear commodore, which does not count unless the member concerned joined before the Silver Jubilee, in which case ... (cont p96)

Oy! You, I wear a blue ensign, but mines from an association not a snobby yacht club!! Mind you dont use it all the time, especially not in the winter, they are bloody expensive, just wear my printed red one then!!

 

[KenMcCulloch]

The point about flags is that it gives a clue as to the skipper's qualities. Just as I would avoid parking adjacent to a dirty car with missing wheel trim, I can use a boat's flags to tell me whether it is likely to cause me trouble. For example a club-less Bavaria with a tiny ensign is probably on charter, and a boat that doesn't care what it puts up probably doesn't care about its seamanship, or even marina-manners either.

Do you have evidence for such a claim? When you say probably is that speculation or have you the scars? I'm not trying to have a fight or be annoying, I'm genuinely interested. I care passionately for good seamanship but I find the whole flag culture a bit strange. Like my neighbour Fascadale I like flags but don't take them too seriously.

 

[TamarMike]

The point about flags is that it gives a clue as to the skipper's qualities. Just as I would avoid parking adjacent to a dirty car with missing wheel trim, I can use a boat's flags to tell me whether it is likely to cause me trouble. For example a club-less Bavaria with a tiny ensign is probably on charter, and a boat that doesn't care what it puts up probably doesn't care about its seamanship, or even marina-manners either.

I think a skippers attitude to balls and cones says more about his qualities than his bunting.

 

[Ludd]

the point about flags is that it gives a clue as to the skipper's qualities. Just as i would avoid parking adjacent to a dirty car with missing wheel trim, i can use a boat's flags to tell me whether it is likely to cause me trouble. For example a club-less bavaria with a tiny ensign is probably on charter, and a boat that doesn't care what it puts up probably doesn't care about its seamanship, or even marina-manners either.

cobblers springs to mind!

 

[fastjedi]

The point about flags is that it gives a clue as to the skipper's qualities. Just as I would avoid parking adjacent to a dirty car with missing wheel trim, I can use a boat's flags to tell me whether it is likely to cause me trouble. For example a club-less Bavaria with a tiny ensign is probably on charter, and a boat that doesn't care what it puts up probably doesn't care about its seamanship, or even marina-manners either.

It is human nature to judge others by many characteristics .... on the water I am sure many of us make initial judgements based on the type of boat, how it is equipped and maintained or the type of crew aboard. It has never occured to me that someone might distrust me because I am not flying a Red Ensign. That's it, I am going out to buy a 2 yard flag tomorrow. Might stop me crashing into things