Flag etiquette when abroad

Almost all other European countries and NZ have very strict rules about the seaworthiness and 'equipment' of the boat and many also require the skipper to have some formal qualifications

Just a small point - NZ has no rules whatsoever that generally apply for the seaworthiness of pleasure vessels either on its register or not. The only equipment that must be carried are lifejackets (but don't have to be worn).

The only requirement is that a NZ registered yacht has to pass a safety inspection before clearance will be given for departure to a foreign port. Most well built cruising yachts have no difficulty passing that inspection but does mean that a radio (may be VHF), 406 EPIRB, flares, lifejackets and liferaft must be carried but that is basic common sense in any event - one also has to keep in mind that departing from NZ is a little different to a "voyage" /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif across the Channel or even a trade wind drift across the Atlantic. This requirement was brought about by the number of losses in the temperate part of the South Pacific - most losses these days are foreign vessels en route to/from the Pacific Islands.

There are no qualification requirements whatsoever in NZ for the skipper of any pleasure boat (for the sake of others - I recognise Michael was probably excluding NZ wrt qualifications with his reference to "many").

John
 
Hi sh02sh,

I'm in exactly the same position. I'm a British national and bought a Swedish boat which I keep in Sweden (which makes sense as I live here). Just fly the local flag, unless getting the boat re-registered in the UK is less hassle than conforming to local requirements. If you're feeling patriotic, just a get a Union Jack spinnaker /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
At last a sensible reply...

..those above who have replied in a flippent way are condoning cars wandering our roads without number plates.

If like me you're looking for a boat which purported to be registered in Jersey, following a nasty incident a few weeks ago, only to find that no such boat exists on any UK register, you might take this a little more seriously.

The terms "Flagged in" and "registered in" have the same meaning and if your boat is so identified in a particular country then YOU and all it's equipment and behaviour must relate to the laws of that country. ECHO - OSCAR - SIERRA.

Steve Cronin
 
Re: At last a sensible reply...

Boat registration to number plates ? A bit of a jump. Why not have national insurance numbers tatooed on our foreheads?

I'm sorry you have had a problem but what was suggested was dual registration - should make it twice as easy to find. Remember there is no requirement to register before flying the red ensign.
 
Re: At last a sensible reply...

[ QUOTE ]
what was suggested was dual registration - should make it twice as easy to find. Remember there is no requirement to register before flying the red ensign.

[/ QUOTE ]
From dual registration to no registration - that's also a leap! But I'm not sure that being registered nowhere is going to help with appeasing foreign authorities much...

If you're trying to dual register illegally, then apart from the fact you're quite likely to get caught, you're going to have to comply with two sets of country's regulations instead of one, entirely unnecessarily. So apart from two different ports of registry, covering/uncovering SSR numbers, you'll need two sets of VHF registrations in the two countries, with two different call signs, VHF operator's licences for both countries, an ICC as well as whatever foreign licence is needed, you may open yourself up to complying with all sorts of local regulations regarding licensing, safety equipment, taxes etc. in the second country when you could have had a nice easy life just getting an SSR registration. Why would anyone want to carry through the deception?

BTW, if the idea is to register abroad, then fly the red ensign anyway on the basis that you could fly it as a British owner if you were registered nowhere, it doesn't work like that. It is illegal to fly a British ensign if you are foreign registered, whether British owned or not.
 
Re: At last a sensible reply...

There may be no requirement to register before flying the red ensign in British waters, in fact there is no requirement for a british owned yacht to fly the red ensign in British waters whether registered or not.

However, once in foriegn waters there is a requirement for a vessel to be legally registered and to fly the ensign of the country of its registration.
 
Re: At last a sensible reply...

I was very fond of my Dinky Toy James Bond Aston Martin with revolving number plates - could work with SSR numbers too. I used to have two passports, both British, to avoid upsetting those countries that didn't like you visiting certain other countries - was paranoid that I would lift the wrong one on the rush out the house.

Not that that has anything to do with flights of fancy on boat registration. Worrying aspect of this thread is the acceptance of compulsory registration and implied bureaucracy and tax levying aspects.
 
Re: At last a sensible reply...

I still have my well played with Bond Aston Martin.

SSR is the least bureaucratic and taxing form of registry I've found so far.
It is not compulsory until you wish to leave British waters.

It is simply a very cost effective way of protecting your self from some little jumped up jobs worth in a furrin place charging you various local taxes and fines, imposing their legislation on you and possibly stealing (oops sorry) impounding your boat.

No UK government agency will compel you to register your boat; and the UK authorities will allow you full freedom of expression to challenge the bureaucracies and heavy handed legislation of any country you should wish to challenge by sailing unregistered into their waters.

We wish you every sucess in your endeavours and await the outcome(s) with interest /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: At last a sensible reply...

I had a James Bond Aston Martin too /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

BTW it's not just UK and local law in countries you may be visiting that stops you registering in two places, it's international law. See for example Article 92 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS):

"Article 92. Status of ships

1. Ships shall sail under the flag of one State only and, save in exceptional cases expressly provided for in international treaties or in this Convention, shall be subject to its exclusive jurisdiction on the high seas. A ship may not change its flag during a voyage or while in a port of call, save in the case of a real transfer of ownership or change of registry.

2. A ship which sails under the flags of two or more States, using them according to convenience, may not claim any of the nationalities in question with respect to any other State, and may be assimilated to a ship without nationality."

Or in other words, if you try it, you forfeit the protection of both British law and your other flag state, and your boat can be confiscated etc. by any other state's ships with impunity.
 
As to SSR being any sort of guarantee that the boat is bona fide...

..it certainly isn't.

When the SSR first started and I registered our first seagoing boat, they asked me for all sorts of documents, particularly proof of ownership by original purchase invoice.

When I did the current boat thre years ago, I just filled in a form and sent off the money. I could easily have been "registering" YOUR stolen boat to make it look legitimate in a Mediterranean marina.

Steve Cronin
 
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