Peppermint
New member
He went sailing early morning, with four other Frenchmen, had a nice day and returned to find carnage. It didn't dound like the wave caused him any concern while he was at sea.
Five Live report from French Yottie in Thailand
- Thread starter Peppermint
- Start date
charon
New member
No. In deep water it could be just a ripple going past. It doesn't rear up and get nasty untill it's in shallow water with no place to go except up.
catmandoo
Active member
Looking at the Sky report at an Engineering lab wave generator it would appear the in deep water the wave is about half a metre high 200 km wide and travelling at 400 kph . when it hits the shallows it slows down to 30 but the stuff at the back is still going at 400 so it piles up into 30 + metres
kimhollamby
Active member
Physicist required
Out of interest what are the forces generated by a wave travelling at 400kph lifting several tons of boat 0.5m - unless I am missing something that is a very fast event compared to a 'normal' wave?
Out of interest what are the forces generated by a wave travelling at 400kph lifting several tons of boat 0.5m - unless I am missing something that is a very fast event compared to a 'normal' wave?
Alastairdent
New member
Re: Physicist required
It is a very very fast event - the forces will depend on the hull form and angle that it strikes - some boats probably won't lift much.
I suspect that the forces are well within ocean-going yacht tolerances - falling off a wave results in some pretty big forces.
It is a very very fast event - the forces will depend on the hull form and angle that it strikes - some boats probably won't lift much.
I suspect that the forces are well within ocean-going yacht tolerances - falling off a wave results in some pretty big forces.
Romeo
Well-known member
Re: Physicist required
Presumably it has a pretty long wavelength, so even if its travelling fast you won't really notice it which is presumably why an early warning system is hard to rig up. I read yesterday that the early warnign system in the pacific really needs the wave to hit land somewhere before it can work. If that is right it woulc not have done much good to teh majority of victims who were pretty close the the epicentre of the quake.
Presumably it has a pretty long wavelength, so even if its travelling fast you won't really notice it which is presumably why an early warning system is hard to rig up. I read yesterday that the early warnign system in the pacific really needs the wave to hit land somewhere before it can work. If that is right it woulc not have done much good to teh majority of victims who were pretty close the the epicentre of the quake.
janeK
Member
Lloyd\'s Agency Update LONG post
Here is a further update sent to the Lloyd's market today.
Further to the update circulated yesterday, the following information has since been received which we hope will be of interest to you.
INDONESIA
From PT Carsurin, Lloyd's Agents for Indonesia:
"The ports which are heavily smashed and not functioning:
Sabang, at We Island
Malahayati, Olele, Pertamina and Semen Andalas (Lhok Nga Island) at Banda Aceh, the capital city of Aceh Province
Idi Cut
Meulaboh, which is very close to the Earthquake epicenter, whereas the town is 80% heavily destroyed
Special/Privately owned terminal of SOCFINDO and ASTRA
Singkil, the southernmost port of Aceh Province at the same side with Meulaboh, west side coast.
The ports which are still intact and in normal operational condition:
Kuala Langsa, Special/Privately owned port of PT Aseab Aceh Fertilizer (Pupuk Iskandar Muda)
Lhok Seumawe, special port of Arun LNG Company. The last LNG shipment after the tragedy was made on 28 December - to Korea, per "ECHIGO MARU".
The ports in the neighbouring Province and adjacent to Aceh, North Sumatera, are not affected that much and are still in good condition, including Belawan (Medan), and Sibolga, the nearest port to Singkil and Meulaboh on the south west coast.
Additional Information:
Blang Bintang airport at Banda Aceh is considered in operational condition and aid cargo is arriving by Hercules aircraft.
Banda Aceh itself is more than 50% destroyed.
Buildings smashed down to ground level are houses, schools, hospitals, roads, bridges and other infrastructures.
Loss of lives is so far estimated more than 40,000, while refugees total more than 100,000.
Probable affected area: At the coast of Sunda Strait, on the Java side, on December 29, 1,820 houses were flooded up to 2 meters high by the special high tide and high waves causing the high speed ferry boat to cease operation, but ordinary RoRo Ferry boat is still in operation.
Communication to Aceh area is quite difficult because about 80% of telephone lines were destroyed and many Port Administration personnel have been affected by this tragedy"
KENYA
McLarens Toplis, Lloyd's Agents at Nairobi and Mombasa have reported the following:
"Mombasa port and the surrounding areas were not affected and business continues uninterrupted.
The Northern towns of Malindi and Lamu were however slightly hit but no serious incident has been reported apart from damage caused to uninsured fishing boats. Two leading P & I Correspondents in Mombasa say there is no report on any vessel stranded or hit by the Tsunamis"
MALAYSIA
The following report was received from Singapore late yesterday:
"Penang;
Lots of damage at coastal areas mainly occupied by fisherman.
Resort areas mainly free from any significant damage. Loss was to people who were swimming in the sea when the tidal waves hit. 60 people confirmed dead so far with about 500 injured. We have 30 instructions for Hotels, mainly water damage.
Tanjung Bungah roads inundated with sludge mainly from Sea reclamation.
The Ferry and Bridge was closed for about 1/2 a day. The airport was closed for a few hours.
Industrial areas currently mainly free from any significant damage, although there are reports of some production losses arising from the tremors at about 9am and the aftershocks about 1pm. Damage will be to production machinery and work in progress, maybe some business interruption.
In summary, the loss is mainly to lives and the shock sorrounding the aftermath. Some industrial losses may be possible although Earthquake as a peril is excluded under the standard fire policies. Liability will be a big issue. There will be claims for cleaning up costs, vehicle damages and PA claims. The industrial claims will filter in.
Langkawi;
Miraculously, no significant damage to Hotels. Kuah town OK.
Some hotels near Pantai Canang, Pelangi, Sheraton, Porto Malai affected.
We have been dealing with the Pelangi Hotel loss where a fishing boat was washed into the hotel lobby. Miraculously, the Hotel next door was spared from any damage.
Lafarge has a cement factory on Langkawi and some initial reports of damage to the Jetty. Main Plant seems OK. More of the same as Penang - mainly loss of 1 or 2 lives. Other areas appears OK .
____________________________________
Only the Northern states on the west coast of Malaysia like Perak, Penang, Kedah and Perlis are affected by the tidal wave Tsunami. Up till now Malaysia has about 65 deaths and the figure may be rising slightly. Most of the victims are from Penang where the beaches of Batu Ferringhi and Balik Pulau were slamped by the wave. Fishermen in Balik Pulau and coastal villages were badly affected.
At Batu Ferringhi, those affected were mainly the tourists and picnickers.
Perak was slightly affected with a few deaths . Kedah and Perlis were badly
affected. In Langkawi we understand that some pleasure crafts and
pilot boats sank.
Fishermen and villagers along the coast of Kedah and Perlis were swamped by
the tidal wave. There were also a considerable number of deaths and fishing
boats are missing and sunk. Some landed on the road.
However all ports in Malaysia are not affected and there is no delay and/or
damage to any facility. All Malaysian ports are operational 24 hours a day.
During the tidal wave incident, we understand Penang ferry was not affected
and the port was not closed.
Presently there is a 24 hours Tsunami watch in all states and we understand
that up till now there are almost 63 aftershocks with some measuring up to
5.6 Richter Scale. We understand that when the scale reaches 7.5 Richter
Scale, there will be a warning given the the public".
SEYCHELLES
Harry Savy & Co (Seychelles) Ltd., reports the following:
"The water level in the Port Victoria area and in the Southern Parts of the
Islands of Mahe, receeded suddenly to abnormally low levels and within
fifteen minutes the tide rose with subsequent wave force.
There has been no substantial damage to larger vessels but many small fishing boats and pleasure crafts were washed ashore. Property damage is also substantial".
SRI LANKA
Aitken Spence & Co., Ltd., in Colombo have sent the following report this morning:
"Currently things appear to be stable but there is speculation that further
disturbances may occur.
In the Port of Colombo the water levels rose considerably upto the top edge of the piers and a small quantity of water went over the piers as well. One vessel grounded whilst entering the Port owing to heavy disturbances. Water entered the dry dock which is at present under control. No damage occurred to containers stored at the JCT and SAGT terminals.
The other vessels inside the port are OK. The port movements were
suspended on the 26th, and movements were scheduled to start from
noon yesterday. The Port of Galle was heavily flooded causing much chaos and damage and subsequently was heavily silted and at present the condition appears stable.
Due to the possibility of the draught been affected, the shipping operations
have been suspended for at least a few days. It has been reported that the water levels of the Port of Trincomalee rose considerably but things at present appear stable".
TANZANIA
The vessel mentioned in yesterday's report is the "HIGH SPIRIT" and not the "HIGH TIDE"
THAILAND
Allied Surveyors and Adjusters Ltd., in Bangkok advise that the Lloyd's Sub Agency in Phuket was not affected and is operating normally. It was only the area at or around the beaches that has suffered. The town of Phuket itself was not affected. The provinces of Phanga, Phuket, Krabi and Trang on the south-western coast have all suffered from the tidal waves which were stated to reach 8 metres high. It is now stated that 1,800 persons have drowned.
According to Lloyd's Sub-agent in Phuket, no cargo ships , tankers or cruise ships were anchored or berthed at Phuket when the incident occured. Only small craft which were near the beaches were destroyed or damaged.
Further information will be circulated in due course.
Further information:
Rebecca Partridge
Agency Department
Room 394, Lloyd's 1986 Building
Direct Line: 020 7327 5521
Facsimile: 020 7327 6777
Email: Rebecca.Partridge@lloyds.com
Website: www.lloydsagency.com
Thursday 30 December, 2004
Here is a further update sent to the Lloyd's market today.
Further to the update circulated yesterday, the following information has since been received which we hope will be of interest to you.
INDONESIA
From PT Carsurin, Lloyd's Agents for Indonesia:
"The ports which are heavily smashed and not functioning:
Sabang, at We Island
Malahayati, Olele, Pertamina and Semen Andalas (Lhok Nga Island) at Banda Aceh, the capital city of Aceh Province
Idi Cut
Meulaboh, which is very close to the Earthquake epicenter, whereas the town is 80% heavily destroyed
Special/Privately owned terminal of SOCFINDO and ASTRA
Singkil, the southernmost port of Aceh Province at the same side with Meulaboh, west side coast.
The ports which are still intact and in normal operational condition:
Kuala Langsa, Special/Privately owned port of PT Aseab Aceh Fertilizer (Pupuk Iskandar Muda)
Lhok Seumawe, special port of Arun LNG Company. The last LNG shipment after the tragedy was made on 28 December - to Korea, per "ECHIGO MARU".
The ports in the neighbouring Province and adjacent to Aceh, North Sumatera, are not affected that much and are still in good condition, including Belawan (Medan), and Sibolga, the nearest port to Singkil and Meulaboh on the south west coast.
Additional Information:
Blang Bintang airport at Banda Aceh is considered in operational condition and aid cargo is arriving by Hercules aircraft.
Banda Aceh itself is more than 50% destroyed.
Buildings smashed down to ground level are houses, schools, hospitals, roads, bridges and other infrastructures.
Loss of lives is so far estimated more than 40,000, while refugees total more than 100,000.
Probable affected area: At the coast of Sunda Strait, on the Java side, on December 29, 1,820 houses were flooded up to 2 meters high by the special high tide and high waves causing the high speed ferry boat to cease operation, but ordinary RoRo Ferry boat is still in operation.
Communication to Aceh area is quite difficult because about 80% of telephone lines were destroyed and many Port Administration personnel have been affected by this tragedy"
KENYA
McLarens Toplis, Lloyd's Agents at Nairobi and Mombasa have reported the following:
"Mombasa port and the surrounding areas were not affected and business continues uninterrupted.
The Northern towns of Malindi and Lamu were however slightly hit but no serious incident has been reported apart from damage caused to uninsured fishing boats. Two leading P & I Correspondents in Mombasa say there is no report on any vessel stranded or hit by the Tsunamis"
MALAYSIA
The following report was received from Singapore late yesterday:
"Penang;
Lots of damage at coastal areas mainly occupied by fisherman.
Resort areas mainly free from any significant damage. Loss was to people who were swimming in the sea when the tidal waves hit. 60 people confirmed dead so far with about 500 injured. We have 30 instructions for Hotels, mainly water damage.
Tanjung Bungah roads inundated with sludge mainly from Sea reclamation.
The Ferry and Bridge was closed for about 1/2 a day. The airport was closed for a few hours.
Industrial areas currently mainly free from any significant damage, although there are reports of some production losses arising from the tremors at about 9am and the aftershocks about 1pm. Damage will be to production machinery and work in progress, maybe some business interruption.
In summary, the loss is mainly to lives and the shock sorrounding the aftermath. Some industrial losses may be possible although Earthquake as a peril is excluded under the standard fire policies. Liability will be a big issue. There will be claims for cleaning up costs, vehicle damages and PA claims. The industrial claims will filter in.
Langkawi;
Miraculously, no significant damage to Hotels. Kuah town OK.
Some hotels near Pantai Canang, Pelangi, Sheraton, Porto Malai affected.
We have been dealing with the Pelangi Hotel loss where a fishing boat was washed into the hotel lobby. Miraculously, the Hotel next door was spared from any damage.
Lafarge has a cement factory on Langkawi and some initial reports of damage to the Jetty. Main Plant seems OK. More of the same as Penang - mainly loss of 1 or 2 lives. Other areas appears OK .
____________________________________
Only the Northern states on the west coast of Malaysia like Perak, Penang, Kedah and Perlis are affected by the tidal wave Tsunami. Up till now Malaysia has about 65 deaths and the figure may be rising slightly. Most of the victims are from Penang where the beaches of Batu Ferringhi and Balik Pulau were slamped by the wave. Fishermen in Balik Pulau and coastal villages were badly affected.
At Batu Ferringhi, those affected were mainly the tourists and picnickers.
Perak was slightly affected with a few deaths . Kedah and Perlis were badly
affected. In Langkawi we understand that some pleasure crafts and
pilot boats sank.
Fishermen and villagers along the coast of Kedah and Perlis were swamped by
the tidal wave. There were also a considerable number of deaths and fishing
boats are missing and sunk. Some landed on the road.
However all ports in Malaysia are not affected and there is no delay and/or
damage to any facility. All Malaysian ports are operational 24 hours a day.
During the tidal wave incident, we understand Penang ferry was not affected
and the port was not closed.
Presently there is a 24 hours Tsunami watch in all states and we understand
that up till now there are almost 63 aftershocks with some measuring up to
5.6 Richter Scale. We understand that when the scale reaches 7.5 Richter
Scale, there will be a warning given the the public".
SEYCHELLES
Harry Savy & Co (Seychelles) Ltd., reports the following:
"The water level in the Port Victoria area and in the Southern Parts of the
Islands of Mahe, receeded suddenly to abnormally low levels and within
fifteen minutes the tide rose with subsequent wave force.
There has been no substantial damage to larger vessels but many small fishing boats and pleasure crafts were washed ashore. Property damage is also substantial".
SRI LANKA
Aitken Spence & Co., Ltd., in Colombo have sent the following report this morning:
"Currently things appear to be stable but there is speculation that further
disturbances may occur.
In the Port of Colombo the water levels rose considerably upto the top edge of the piers and a small quantity of water went over the piers as well. One vessel grounded whilst entering the Port owing to heavy disturbances. Water entered the dry dock which is at present under control. No damage occurred to containers stored at the JCT and SAGT terminals.
The other vessels inside the port are OK. The port movements were
suspended on the 26th, and movements were scheduled to start from
noon yesterday. The Port of Galle was heavily flooded causing much chaos and damage and subsequently was heavily silted and at present the condition appears stable.
Due to the possibility of the draught been affected, the shipping operations
have been suspended for at least a few days. It has been reported that the water levels of the Port of Trincomalee rose considerably but things at present appear stable".
TANZANIA
The vessel mentioned in yesterday's report is the "HIGH SPIRIT" and not the "HIGH TIDE"
THAILAND
Allied Surveyors and Adjusters Ltd., in Bangkok advise that the Lloyd's Sub Agency in Phuket was not affected and is operating normally. It was only the area at or around the beaches that has suffered. The town of Phuket itself was not affected. The provinces of Phanga, Phuket, Krabi and Trang on the south-western coast have all suffered from the tidal waves which were stated to reach 8 metres high. It is now stated that 1,800 persons have drowned.
According to Lloyd's Sub-agent in Phuket, no cargo ships , tankers or cruise ships were anchored or berthed at Phuket when the incident occured. Only small craft which were near the beaches were destroyed or damaged.
Further information will be circulated in due course.
Further information:
Rebecca Partridge
Agency Department
Room 394, Lloyd's 1986 Building
Direct Line: 020 7327 5521
Facsimile: 020 7327 6777
Email: Rebecca.Partridge@lloyds.com
Website: www.lloydsagency.com
Thursday 30 December, 2004
snowleopard
Active member
Physicist\'s response...
with a wave travelling at 400kph, a height of 0.5 m and a wavelength of 200km, the boat will take 15 mins to rise 0.5m and another 15 mins to go back down again. that's no faster than being lifted by the tide in places around the UK!!
with a wave travelling at 400kph, a height of 0.5 m and a wavelength of 200km, the boat will take 15 mins to rise 0.5m and another 15 mins to go back down again. that's no faster than being lifted by the tide in places around the UK!!
catmandoo
Active member
Re: Physicist required
IF you consider water 200km wide and 2000km long raised by 0.5 metres and convert that to tonnes and then to work done in terms of watts then that should give you an indication and I am only an engineer
IF you consider water 200km wide and 2000km long raised by 0.5 metres and convert that to tonnes and then to work done in terms of watts then that should give you an indication and I am only an engineer
Rabbie
New member
Re: Physicist required
/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gifThis terribly sad event reminds me of when I was a serviceman on Christmas Island in the Pacific in the 60s. The mean height of the atoll was 4 feet. We received information from Honolulu radio that a 4 foot tsunami, caused by an undersea earthquake off Japan was heading our way at 200mph!. We spent the night arguing about how 500+ squaddies could get on the water towers and cling on. We were VERY apprehensive. Fortunately, the wave expired before it reached us. Any other Grapplers out there ?.
/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gifThis terribly sad event reminds me of when I was a serviceman on Christmas Island in the Pacific in the 60s. The mean height of the atoll was 4 feet. We received information from Honolulu radio that a 4 foot tsunami, caused by an undersea earthquake off Japan was heading our way at 200mph!. We spent the night arguing about how 500+ squaddies could get on the water towers and cling on. We were VERY apprehensive. Fortunately, the wave expired before it reached us. Any other Grapplers out there ?.
Gunfleet
New member
Re: Physicist required
Were they tall or short squaddies? Scottish or Welsh regiments? East Anglians could have just stood there. Black Watch would need to find a Grenadier Guard to climb on top of.
Were they tall or short squaddies? Scottish or Welsh regiments? East Anglians could have just stood there. Black Watch would need to find a Grenadier Guard to climb on top of.
cliff
Active member
Re: Physicist required
[ QUOTE ]
Out of interest what are the forces generated by a wave travelling at 400kph lifting several tons of boat 0.5m - unless I am missing something that is a very fast event compared to a 'normal' wave?
[/ QUOTE ]
Vessel's initial upward acceleration irrespective of mass would be in the order of 0.0007227m/s or there abouts assuming sinusoidal wave form of height 0.5m and wave length of 200km travelling at 400kmph.
Remember it takes 15 minutes or 900 seconds to raise the vessel 0.5m which is very slow in reality.
An escalator moves faster as do lifts in buildings
The additional force exerted on each crew member would not be noticeable. (F=MA and all that)
----------
[ QUOTE ]
Out of interest what are the forces generated by a wave travelling at 400kph lifting several tons of boat 0.5m - unless I am missing something that is a very fast event compared to a 'normal' wave?
[/ QUOTE ]
Vessel's initial upward acceleration irrespective of mass would be in the order of 0.0007227m/s or there abouts assuming sinusoidal wave form of height 0.5m and wave length of 200km travelling at 400kmph.
Remember it takes 15 minutes or 900 seconds to raise the vessel 0.5m which is very slow in reality.
An escalator moves faster as do lifts in buildings
The additional force exerted on each crew member would not be noticeable. (F=MA and all that)
----------