Fitting level sensors and display for Fuel, water and blackwater tanks

BartW

BartW

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www.amptec.be
I’m considering to place ultrasonic level sensors in our tanks
And install such a display

philippi%20display.jpg


Phillipi also has some nice Ultrasonic level sensor that I have been using successfully for 8 y on our Karnic (combined with traditional, gauges)
These sensors integrate perfectly with the display above.
http://www.philippi-online.de

Q1: what kind of tank level display’s / gauges are common on new bigger boats ?
Q2: is there a risc of explosion or fire when drilling a 25mm hole in the top plate of the steel fuel tank, while there is diesel in it ?
(hot metal particles / swarf falling in the fuel)

Many years ago I drilled a hole in the stainless steel fuel tank from our Karnic for the sensor,
But I emptied the tank before drilling IIRC

The main reason to install these, is our Black tank, which is fairly small when 10plp onboard,
We have a” black tank full” alarm, but a level indication placed centrally in the boat would be handy

also for the water tank level, it would be nice to see the level on a display,
instead of climbing behind the engines to see the level in the side tube on the tank.

Thanks for advice!
 
Bart do you have an n2k network? If yes, it is worth putting the data on there, so it can be seen all around the boat and on iPads. But if you don't use n2k that idea is no good obviously
 
cannot really help other than say that following Bart's suggestion I bought a philippi ultrasound sensor for my black water tank. But being a purpose made tank, it already had the odd pattern 5 hole thing to bolt it down.

FWIW, I've tested it and currently adding it to my custom arduino -> N2K black box (actually grey) so that it will broadcast it's info on the N2K bus.
During winter I'll follow this up with a pressure sensor for the diesel tank (on the collector tank which means I wont have to install 4 sensors one for each tank Jez!)

Bart, tbh I wouldn't be particularly happy drilling a hole to the top of the tank with all debris ending in the pipework to the prefilters.
I'd definitely do it on the black water tank though.

cheers

V.
 
Jez, the idea is fairly simple: a small sensor measures the pressure imposed by the stack of diesel on the tanks. Sensor is placed on the collector at the bottom of the tanks. The mbars of pressure is readily converted to height of diesel over the sensor and that's fair enough.
Where it gets complicated is that since you don't have orthogonal prisms for tanks (I'd be v.impressed if you did!) you have to create a translation table that basically gets the mm of diesel in the combined tank setup to actual litres or gallons or % of full tank.
Give me a couple of months to sort out some more important things and I'll come back to that in detail

cheers

V.
 
jfm said:
Bart do you have an n2k network? If yes, it is worth putting the data on there, so it can be seen all around the boat and on iPads. But if you don't use n2k that idea is no good obviously
Click to expand...

there is no n2K network on the boat,
there is a simple Navnet VX2 network, but that is not compatible with N2k Afaik,
I also have very old and basic display's, so no desire to interface with these
 
Whitelighter said:
This system would be interesting for me also but: how does it cope with multiple tanks?

I have 4 fuel tanks and three water tanks. No black water tanks (yet) but I imagine I will have at least 2
Click to expand...

We also have 4 fuel tanks, but these are interconnected, and I alway's have all tanks open, so if I measure the level of one tank, I have enough info.
The display above can be programmed to cope with irregular tank shapes
in my case, 2 fuel tanks are less high than the other two, I can calibrate the difference in hight / volume

FYI
the display above can show the level of max 4 different tanks (and skip the battery status)
 
I cut two new holes in my diesel tanks this summer, about 1/3 full. They are aluminium alloy though. I could reach inside and hold a container underneath the cut out to collect the swarf via an inspection hatch. Took it very very slow with lots of cooling oil.
 
vas said:
Jez, the idea is fairly simple: a small sensor measures the pressure imposed by the stack of diesel on the tanks. Sensor is placed on the collector at the bottom of the tanks. The mbars of pressure is readily converted to height of diesel over the sensor and that's fair enough.
Where it gets complicated is that since you don't have orthogonal prisms for tanks (I'd be v.impressed if you did!) you have to create a translation table that basically gets the mm of diesel in the combined tank setup to actual litres or gallons or % of full tank.
Give me a couple of months to sort out some more important things and I'll come back to that in detail

cheers

V.
Click to expand...

Vas, I have been considering this solution also, I found a few suiteable pressure sensors, but than again there is quite some work involved to make it all work with programming and calibrating, ... don't have time for that.
last week I found per accident that display from philippi, and they now have ultrasound sensor suiteable for tanks of more than 1.5m high... so that is my preferred solution so far, waiting for a quote for from Filippi
 
See the Hart system Gauges, very accurate, idiot proof and simple to fit and no electrickery : http://www.thetanktender.com/

These do not give you a pretty diagram of the tank and a value in litres that may be right or wrong but looks pretty they give you the depth of fluid diesel, fresh water or black water in a tank.

This is the third boat I have had them on, they can handle many tanks of any shape with the same unit, for diesel unless a flat rectangular tank they need calibrating by slow filling and stop measure plot etc.

The cappilliary tubes in mine are held in place in a stainless tube to the bottom of the tank.
 
Whitelighter said:
what is the cost of the display and senders? I was going to get the Victron battery condition monitor anyway which this will do so looks like a good addition to have on board.
Click to expand...

the display is 167 euro
they sugest their new pressure sensor for the big tanks, (as Vas's solution) is 344 euro
the sonar sensor for a small tank is 81 euro (max 80cm hight)
(and for a big tank the somar is 408 euro, but they don't recommand to use this)
all prices are Retail ex vat

if you pm your email, I'll forward you the price list and the quotation I received today,
I 've got a good discount for the system ;-)
 
vas said:
Jez, the idea is fairly simple: a small sensor measures the pressure imposed by the stack of diesel on the tanks. Sensor is placed on the collector at the bottom of the tanks. The mbars of pressure is readily converted to height of diesel over the sensor and that's fair enough.
Where it gets complicated is that since you don't have orthogonal prisms for tanks (I'd be v.impressed if you did!) you have to create a translation table that basically gets the mm of diesel in the combined tank setup to actual litres or gallons or % of full tank.
Give me a couple of months to sort out some more important things and I'll come back to that in detail

cheers

V.
Click to expand...

Vas, Phillippi has a new pressure sensor accoding your solution,
it is not yet on their website,
they recommand to use this, its more accurate, and more easy to fit,
and as you say, this can be fitted somewhere in the plumbing on the bottom of the fuel tank...
 
simonfraser said:
the drilling bit = explosion seems to be low risk in a petrol tank, let alone diesel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtPXnGSAwwo
Click to expand...

Absolutely DO NOT EVER drill into a petrol .tank unless a) it has been filled with water to evacuate vapour or b) you use an air drill.

Drill motor sparks and petrol vapour only ever end one way!

Diesel should be ok, but I wouldn't do it!
 
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