Fitting an inner forestay

Bajansailor said:
We also have a removable inner forestay with a Highfield lever arrangement attached to a U bolt on the deck (and the underside of this is tension down to the anchor locker bulkhead).
The outer forestay has a roller furling genoa; the inner forestay is used for a high cut yankee working jib. It could also be used for the storm jib, although we have never had to use this in anger.
We usually leave the inner forestay in place, unless we know that we will be short tacking with the roller genoa.
If only anticipating maybe one or two tacks on a passage, we simply roll up the genoa as we tack, and then let it out again on the new tack.
It is nice to have the security and peace of mind of the extra forestay.
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We do the same - have an inner forestay on a Highfield lever which we leave,.effectively permanently attached. It was originally wrapped round the mast and simply looked untidy. Our inner forestay is attached to a flange on our cross beam (catamaran) - if it was attached to the foredeck behind the trampoline it would carry a very small sail.

But we are yacht owners of considerable experience, or maturity :) and try not to beat into headwinds and swell. Our need to tack is thus restricted, its so much more comfortable to wait till we can reach. There are circumstances when we would tack - but its not as if we are racing round buoys and a tack is something that might merit adding to the log, after a few hours on one tack - again we might do as Bajan suggests (furl the headsail) - it would depend o n whether there is one or 2 on deck.

Jonathan
 
William_H said:
The location of the new inner forestay onto the mast is a question of distance down and stiffness of the mast. The back stay and possibly cap shrouds that have to react against the pull from the inner forestay. (which will be great). In some cases there may be a case for fitting running back stays to the same level, to keep the mast straight and counter the load.
So it is not possible for me or anyone who is not a rigging engineer with much experience to gi ve the answer as to how far down from the main forestay you can attach a storm type inner forstay for a storm jib. I would imagine that a small percentatge (10%) of distance down from forestay to intermediate shrouds would be OK. Perhaps more on a really robust mast. I think it needs to be separated by some distance.
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Do read again the recommendations made by Selden, unequivocably, in their Options 1 and 2....... https://support.seldenmast.com/files/excerpts/595-808-E-35-35.pdf

I have queried 3 other seasoned expert rigger-principals on this..... who all agree. I took that unanimous advice.
 
zoidberg said:
Do read again the recommendations made by Selden, unequivocably, in their Options 1 and 2....... https://support.seldenmast.com/files/excerpts/595-808-E-35-35.pdf

I have queried 3 other seasoned expert rigger-principals on this..... who all agree. I took that unanimous advice.
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Good to see figures, I've only ever seen peopke mention of under 1m from the masthead.

It's a job on the list but there's other things first, looks like I might get away with it though, manmaths says my sheeve is a forearm below the forestay so might be on to a winner.

Out of interest which highfield levers are peopke using? Sea Sure don't list them on their website and a lot of places are showing them as out of stock!

Screenshot_20210213-091621_Gallery.jpg
 
jwilson said:
The Highfield lever setup guarantees that your stay and lever are significantly longer than the shrouds, and wll be difficult to stow neatly alongside a shroud or to the base of the mast.
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My inner forestay uses a (heinously expensive) wichard babystay adjuster. This allows sufficient adjustment such that it quite neatly attaches to a dedicated ring on the side deck next to the shrouds when not in use. Only downside is the "heinously expensive" part.
 
Yellow Ballad said:
Out of interest which highfield levers are peopke using?
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I have never used a high field lever (so merely speculating), but to me it seems unlikely that one could achieve sufficient tension with such a short lever.
For my inner forestay I have a normal rigging screw with the addition of 'handles' as seen in the photo below.
This makes tensioning quite quick, I know there is 12 turns to be made and I doubt it takes more than 30 seconds to do.
handled%20bottle%20screw.jpg
 
BabaYaga said:
I have never used a high field lever (so merely speculating), but to me it seems unlikely that one could achieve sufficient tension with such a short lever.
For my inner forestay I have a normal rigging screw with the addition of 'handles' as seen in the photo below.
This makes tensioning quite quick, I know there is 12 turns to be made and I doubt it takes more than 30 seconds to do.
handled%20bottle%20screw.jpg
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I seem to recall a Hasselfors rep telling me one shouldn't use a screwdriver between the two side-bodies of a rigging screw - as in the above pic - for that is likely to lead to cracking where you don't want it. Instead use a wrench or locking pliers ( Molegrips ) on the 'flats' at top of the body.

Just sayin'....

:rolleyes:
 
MAKurtis said:
Those Colligo terminators look to be new versions of old, old technology. Who recommends them, where, when and why?
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Used as an option for tensioning dyneema standing rigging instead of turnbuckles.
They are exactly as you describe, a new version of old tech.
I find ours hard to use for tensioning our removable inner forestay.
 
We have a Highfield on our inner forestay. It has a large pelican type hook to go onto a deck eye. Only would be used for storm job so never used in anger. However the Highfield lever in question is about 2ft long and very substantial bit of stainless for a 34ft boat. I'd hate to think of the cost. I am pretty sure that my 100kg on a 2ft lever could get the forestay pretty tight if needed!
 
zoidberg said:
I seem to recall a Hasselfors rep telling me one shouldn't use a screwdriver between the two side-bodies of a rigging screw - as in the above pic - for that is likely to lead to cracking where you don't want it. Instead use a wrench or locking pliers ( Molegrips ) on the 'flats' at top of the body.

Just sayin'....

:rolleyes:
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I'm aware of that advice and anyone worrying over this could instead use a closed body rigging screw as per post # 26...
Personally I don't worry, as I have used the same type of handles also on my shroud rigging screws for many years (30+) and have seen no ill effects.
Besides, if using a modern rigging screw with a bronze middle part it may well be the case that there are no 'flats' top and bottom, so the wrench has to go over the split section anyway.
 
A high field lever provides a power at the wire in proportion to the length of the lever and the dimension of the take up. So less take up and you can have a lever providing quite a lot of tightening power that is quite small. I made mine (for main forestay on a trailer sailer) from bits of SS plate and bolts. The trick is to make up a template out of cardboard to get dimensions right. For a storm type inner forestay you might need a turnscrew to get tension correct but then leave turnscrew set and use high field lever to get a very quick positive set of tension. Scanned Document.pdf
The tricky part is to get pivots for the sections which must fit inside the outer pair of plates in 2 places. I used a pin and a touch of welding. When closed you need a pin to hold it all closed.
Might give some one some ideas. For me it has worked for years giving very quick tensioning of the whole rig when raising the mast. ol'will
 

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William_H said:
The tricky part is to get pivots for the sections which must fit inside the outer pair of plates in 2 places.
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Out of curiosity: Is there a design for a highfield lever that does not incorporate rivets or bolts that are loaded in shear on one side only (the bolts marked as 'countersunk screws+nut' in the sketch)?
 
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Lots of useful and/or interesting ideas. I am inclining towards initially trying just a hook end through the deck U bolt and 'handles' on the turnbuckle.
doug748 said:
These things are a terrific price, if you buy the off the shelf stuff.

Cheapskates can use a big turnbuckle like this:

Stainless Steel 316 Rigging Screw/Turnbuckle 5mm, 6mm, 8mm, 10mm, 12mm | eBay

A pin through the middle welded to a ring like this:

12MM x 100MM Stainless Steel Round Ring - Marine O Webbing Rigging 707152587815 | eBay~

And you have a functional item. Mine came from blagged bits and pieces and cost very little.


.
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Those turnbuckles seem very cheap ! Are they up to standard? I understand and have seen fittings where the thread is a sort of moulding rather than cut?
 
pcatterall said:
Lots of useful and/or interesting ideas. I am inclining towards initially trying just a hook end through the deck U bolt and 'handles' on the turnbuckle.

Those turnbuckles seem very cheap ! Are they up to standard? I understand and have seen fittings where the thread is a sort of moulding rather than cut?
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No idea really, it was just an example. You could pay much more if you were risk averse, mine came secondhand from a beach auction. :- (

It does say 5000 Kg to destruction which (if true) is probably far greater than any sail could exert and enough to lift most small boats right out of the ocean.

.
 
pcatterall said:
Lots of useful and/or interesting ideas. I am inclining towards initially trying just a hook end through the deck U bolt and 'handles' on the turnbuckle.

Those turnbuckles seem very cheap ! Are they up to standard? I understand and have seen fittings where the thread is a sort of moulding rather than cut?
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The term is a thread that is rolled (good) or cut (machined) which is bad. Machined or cut thread creates a stress raiser so failure likely in the thread groove.
Re babayaga comment yes pins are in shear supported only one side which is bad however 2 pins to share the load. In my case the jib halyard actually alleviates the load on the forestay while sailing.
ol'will
 
BabaYaga said:
Out of curiosity: Is there a design for a highfield lever that does not incorporate rivets or bolts that are loaded in shear on one side only (the bolts marked as 'countersunk screws+nut' in the sketch)?
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If the main body were to be extended up another 2 cms above the upper pivot, a hole could be drilled to take a pin that went right through the final load arm. This pin would be added after the lever is closed to lock it closed but would also take the load, the pin in shear supported both ends. ie a clevis pin. Noi load or at least backing up the cantilevered pivot pins. ol'will
 
William_H said:
If the main body were to be extended up another 2 cms above the upper pivot, a hole could be drilled to take a pin that went right through the final load arm. This pin would be added after the lever is closed to lock it closed but would also take the load, the pin in shear supported both ends. ie a clevis pin. Noi load or at least backing up the cantilevered pivot pins. ol'will
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Yes, that would be more of a back up than a load bearer, if I understand you correctly.
 
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