Fitting a radar with the mast up

snooks

snooks

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Me: Surrey Pixie: Solent
www.grahamsnook.com
OK any thoughts and considerations about fitting a radar up the mast with the mast still up?

Any hints or tips that will save me going up and down the mast like a yoyo?

Planning to fit the Scanstrut mount under the radar reflector, above the deck light (See I've given some thought to it!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) it's higher than the first (and only) set of spreaders.

Plan was to drill a hole for the cable at top and bottom, insert a flexible wire into the hole at the bottom all the way so it sits around the inside of mast. drop a line with a small weight on the bottom wait till it hits the mast base, pull out wire which should have caught the line.

Fit the mount (riveted) thread the cable, fit the scanner, go for a beer

Howzat?
 
Personally, I wouldn't.

But if you do, I think you will have problems with the cable running inside the mast, not only will it slap about like chinese water torture, I think you will have big problems getting it out at the bottom. The cable is not very flexible, it is also quite thick, so it figures you don't want to have to drill an oversize hole at the bottom of the mast (which I think you would have to do to get the cable to come through in situ).

Initially, I had to change my cable due to a manufacturing fault. As the RADAR was now up the mast, I clipped the cable to the mast externally, which is how it remained until the next time I unstepped the mast, this I think (I) is how I would tackle fitting a radar until the next periodic mast stepping.

just my take.
 
A few more thoughts,
As jools says, if you just rig it in the mast, it will slap around, get caught in halyards? etc. There is usually a conduit at the front of the mast for cables, you need to get in to this to get the cable through. the cable is, as jools says, quite thick and inflexible. I watched a rigger setting a new mast up a few years ago, he wasnt afraid to jig saw elongated holes in the mast section to fit bits and pieces!
If you go up the mast and look where your vhf cables etc go, you should see the conduit, weigh it up as to position at the front of the mast, then I would make the entrance hole at the front of the mast so that you can push the thick, stiff cable down, the conduit usually stops about a Stu arms length from the base of the mast (trust me! no prizes for guessing how I know) so you need to cut a largish hole at the base below the conduit to fish the cable out, dont forget thisck cable BIG grommit, gives you a bit of fiddling room
Stu
Stu
 
Graham, what are going to stand on to do it? Having spent a couple of hours swaying about at the top of the mast fitting a new ST60 wind thingy this morning I can recommend a flexible mast ladder. We also changed the spinnaker and topping lift halyards before starting as I think they were the original ones now 20 years old.

http://www.hurst-marine.co.uk/

Pete
 
Put it on a seperate pole aft.. lots of advantages I think... easier installation, you could fit some other bits on their as well such as AIS, etc.... keeps the weight aloft down... if you lose the mast you keep yer scanner etc etc... plus I think the Sadler 32 looks killer with a aft pole mounted radar... much more hard core. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Scanstrut...
 
Agreed but you can get a ple made up in stainless for circa £300-return/sell the mast mount and put the money towards a pole for the scanner. Easier to install and service, useful for other kit etc.
 
I wouldn't put it on the mast.Too much trouble for very little benefit.On my boat I have it on a pole at the transom and I get echoes at over 15nm.Quite a lot beyhond the horizon.As Photodog says there are many advantages with this setup.
 
you can hire ali scafold towers,thay are very light and go up in seconds,6 foot x 8 foot or 8ft x 10ft and up to 24ft in height,i used plywood boards so as not to mark the deck,
 
Thanks all so far /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I did think about a pole aft, but being a Salder 32 there ain't too much room at the back end, and what room there is would obstruct the one of the mooring cleats which are in that area, and a support would cross where the boarding ladder is at the stern. Unless I get something fabricated with a big base.
Here's the area:

Transom1.jpg


Transom2.jpg


The base of the push pit is about 1 inch from the cockpit combing you can see. It could go on the on the other side of the pushpit on the transom, but that would mean moving nav lights and rewiring the back end of the boat, but that too would require something substantial as it would be used as a hand hold for the boarding ladder /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I already have all my aerials on the stb side for the GPS, AIS and Navtex, and I don't want to fit in on the port side because that's the side that the rescue services come in from (they always like to come in over the port quarter cos the pilot of the helicopter sits on starboard and can see what he's doing /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

The Garmin radar I have has two smaller cables rather than the chunky Raymarine cable that is one cable for power and data. Also the conduit is at the aft end of the mast either side of the mast track, and that's full of other cables /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Put it below the spreaders so that it does not sway so much and stick / rivet trunking to mast and put the cable in that. Trunking can be sprayed to match mast colour. It works ok with my Furuno.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Put it below the spreaders so that it does not sway so much and stick / rivet trunking to mast and put the cable in that. Trunking can be sprayed to match mast colour. It works ok with my Furuno.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd love to put it below the spreaders, but the deck light is above them which kind of dictates where the radar will go /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Get a special fitting/helmet for swmbo... send her fwd to stand in front of the mast when needed with Scanner on top of bonce and cables running down trouser leg ..... her natural swaying with the movment of the boat will cancel out any heel as well...

Failing that get in a pro... it is surprising how often seemingly insurmountable problems are day to day installations for someone who does..... (And the extra money usually saves on the grief...) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Have one made up from stainless... mount it on the outside of the cockpit coaming either stbd side.... if you get some little solid mounting brackets made from rod rigging up instead of wire guides then they can be very short stright onto the pushpit... I would put it just were the side deck gets wide enough to encompass the base.... have it mounted on a peice of stainless put onto the side of the coaming using a bracket with a thru bolt so it can easily be taken down (Take a look at the Rutland mounting kits for a idea) ... with the base elevated off the deck maybe 3 inches... pole is hollow so you can run cables up and down easily.. take all those bits off the stbd quarter and shove them up their as well... maybe have the top in a sort of loop so that the scanner sits on top of the pole with the loop around the scanner and all the other gubbins on top of the loop on top of the scanner...

Far tidier solution!

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
radar.jpg

This is mine,sorry about the photo,it was cropped from a large one.You can see the rod staying wich goes to a triangular piece that connects the post to the pushpit.In my case the whole thing goes on the outside but in yours it most likely would have to be on the inside and screw down to the coaming.I can send you a more detailed photo if it helps.
The post is made from two spreader sections off a Bavaria's mast that came down.
 
I fitted Radar last year and I was wondering at the time if this was something that I could do with the mast up.

In the end I unstepped the mast and I'm very glad that I did. There is no way of getting a cable into the conduits from anywhere except the ends of the mast. It took me an hour to feed the Radar cable from the bracket to the bottom and this was with the mast on the ground and using a spring wire to feed a guide cable down the mast. Inside the mast there are obstructions such as foam padding to stop loose cables from moving around.

I can honestly say that I could not have succeeded in doing this if it was not unstepped. The cost of the crane and labour was less than £200 so in the end it was a no-brainer. I did all the preparation work myself which cut down the costs.

In short, don't attempt it with the mast up. The alternative method ie. running a conduit down the outside of the mast would seem a good idea to me.
 
Did this to Ronhilda a few years ago, ran cable down inside trunking fixed to side of mast. Worked well. Unless you like looking at deformed land masses at 16 plus miles out no need to mount high, GPS does this range positioning for me and I find I rarely use more than 6 miles range in Fog.

We mounted the scanner on a strut at height of a small ladder and therefore below the first speaders and deck/steaming light. This enabled safe access from roped on ladder to connect cable to scanner etc .
No problems with light being obstructed in practice although I was worried about this.
Worst problem to solve was how to hide thick cable across the saloon roof - tucked it in a lining join.

Brian
 
I've a Sadler 32, but have put off installing radar as yet. (I have a £200 theory for electronic kit - everything eventually comes down to that price - well it worked for Decca and subsequently GPS.)

A guy on the Garmin stand at the LBS suggested mounting their scanner on a bracket attached to the backstay - although the bracket is quite expensive, the installation is apparently much simpler - and a lot cheaper if you're paying someone to do it. It would be at about the same height as on a pole, so more readily accessible than up the mast.

Unfortunately the Garmin radars are still above £200 so I haven't taken this any further, but I offer the idea for what it's worth.
 
I've got a backstay mount on mine, but I would rule that option out on your boat as the backstay tensioning wheel would obstruct it as would the ladder.

I would have thaought that the height that you are proposing on the mast is too high as you would probably get more sea clutter and the extra weight might cause problems at that height.

There's not a lot of room for a pole at the stern. So maybe the better option is to fit it on the mast, but lower than you intended. That way the deck light wouldn't be obscured as much as you think. Unless the mast is removed for fitting, then external trunking is easier. Also if you are fitting it lower down then if there is a shorter cable option check it out. I know that the shorter cable, 10m, on a Furuno is more flexible, and narrower than the 15m cable.
 
G'day Graham,

Any cable inside the mast or rear mounted pole can be fitted with cable ties with long end untrimmed in groups of 3, this will prevent cable slap.

Also keep in mind that drilling holes in the mast will shower any nearby boats with tiny flakes and burs from the drill bit.

Avagoodweekend......
 
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