Fishing vessel versus Trawler

[Yealm]

I'm trying to learn the Colregs lights over the Winter !
Confused as to the distinction between Fishing vessel (R/W) and Trawler (G/W).

I get that a trawler pulls a net along behind to catch fish.
Does that imply that a fishing vessel doesn't use a net - instead is pulling up lobster pots or using a fishing line ?

And what are all the many small/medium sized fishing boats I see around the Southwest coast - are they fishing vessels (R/W) or trawlers (G/W) ?

Also, do they display these special lights all the time (eg leaving harbour en route to fishing grounds) or only when they're actively engaged in fishing ?
Finally, what on earth is a purse seine net ?!

Thankyou so much

 

[duncan99210]

I’ll bite...
A trawler tows a heavy net which drags along or just above the bottom. The gear may take several tens of metres before it is deep enough for a vessel crossing the stern of the trawler to safely cross the trawl. At the same time, the gear makes the trawler virtually impossible to manoeuvre in any meaningful way: it can’t slow down or the net will collapse, it can’t turn to any extent as this will also collapse the net. This means you should stand well clear of a trawler.
Any other fishing vessel will be operating one of any number of fish catching gear, all of which may require the vessel to stop suddenly (to pick up pots), to alter course unpredictably (line fishing) or she may be laying drift nets which might mean she is performing a circular manoeuvre to drop or recover her nets. Same basic message as trawler: stand well clear as you can’t predict what she’ll do next.
And neither type of fishing vessel will be taking a much notice of what you’re up to....
A purse Seine net is variant of the drift net, which is usually laid in a more or less straight line. A Seine net is laid in a circle to trap a shoal of fish. Fuller explanation here Seine fishing - Wikipedia.

 

[cherod]

a purser is basically a trawler ( pedants may explain the difference )

 

[cherod]

Purser

 

[cherod]

I’ll bite...
A trawler tows a heavy net which drags along or just above the bottom. The gear may take several tens of metres before it is deep enough for a vessel crossing the stern of the trawler to safely cross the trawl. At the same time, the gear makes the trawler virtually impossible to manoeuvre in any meaningful way: it can’t slow down or the net will collapse, it can’t turn to any extent as this will also collapse the net. This means you should stand well clear of a trawler.
Any other fishing vessel will be operating one of any number of fish catching gear, all of which may require the vessel to stop suddenly (to pick up pots), to alter course unpredictably (line fishing) or she may be laying drift nets which might mean she is performing a circular manoeuvre to drop or recover her nets. Same basic message as trawler: stand well clear as you can’t predict what she’ll do next.
And neither type of fishing vessel will be taking a much notice of what you’re up to....
A purse Seine net is variant of the drift net, which is usually laid in a more or less straight line. A Seine net is laid in a circle to trap a shoal of fish. Fuller explanation here Seine fishing - Wikipedia.

" and neither type of fishing vessel will be taking any notice of what you are up to ",,, most relevant point

 

[capnsensible]

" and neither type of fishing vessel will be taking any notice of what you are up to ",,, most relevant point

Not according to a friend of mine who was a commercial fisherman for 40 years, who owns a yacht and who I've sailed with. Fishermen are just as keen as you to not get tangled in their nets.

 

[cherod]

Not according to a friend of mine who was a commercial fisherman for 40 years, who owns a yacht and who I've sailed with. Fishermen are just as keen as you to not get tangled in their nets.

fishermen can even get tangled in their own nets !!

 

[alan_d]

I'm trying to learn the Colregs lights over the Winter !
Confused as to the distinction between Fishing vessel (R/W) and Trawler (G/W).

I get that a trawler pulls a net along behind to catch fish.
Does that imply that a fishing vessel doesn't use a net - instead is pulling up lobster pots or using a fishing line ?

And what are all the many small/medium sized fishing boats I see around the Southwest coast - are they fishing vessels (R/W) or trawlers (G/W) ?

Also, do they display these special lights all the time (eg leaving harbour en route to fishing grounds) or only when they're actively engaged in fishing ?
Finally, what on earth is a purse seine net ?!

Thankyou so much

Given that you seem to want to know the answers to improve your knowledge of the Colregs, can I suggest you look at the Regulations themselves? It is covered in Rule 26 (a) to (e).

 

[Yealm]

I’ll bite...
A trawler tows a heavy net which drags along or just above the bottom. The gear may take several tens of metres before it is deep enough for a vessel crossing the stern of the trawler to safely cross the trawl. At the same time, the gear makes the trawler virtually impossible to manoeuvre in any meaningful way: it can’t slow down or the net will collapse, it can’t turn to any extent as this will also collapse the net. This means you should stand well clear of a trawler.
Any other fishing vessel will be operating one of any number of fish catching gear, all of which may require the vessel to stop suddenly (to pick up pots), to alter course unpredictably (line fishing) or she may be laying drift nets which might mean she is performing a circular manoeuvre to drop or recover her nets. Same basic message as trawler: stand well clear as you can’t predict what she’ll do next.
And neither type of fishing vessel will be taking a much notice of what you’re up to....
A purse Seine net is variant of the drift net, which is usually laid in a more or less straight line. A Seine net is laid in a circle to trap a shoal of fish. Fuller explanation here Seine fishing - Wikipedia.

Many thanks !
And if you see a fishing boat moored in harbour, is it possible distinguish trawler from non-trawler from the shape/size/appearanace of the boat ? Are trawlers bigger ? Or are the boats the identical- just the net/technique they chose to use varies ? I was in Lyme today - lots of fishing boats - what would they likely be ? Sorry for ignorance - just trying to learn !

 

[Yealm]

Given that you seem to want to know the answers to improve your knowledge of the Colregs, can I suggest you look at the Regulations themselves? It is covered in Rule 26 (a) to (e).

Thanks got it - a trawler pulls a net along, non-trawlers don't. Found this below which is great - indicates why the distinction in type is important - apparently trawlers less of a hazard to other shipping as nets more likely deeper and less likely to snag.

Rule description

 

[PilotWolf]

Trawling may also be dredged for shellfish such as scallops or oysters.

Purse seining is nothing g like trawling! A starting point of netting is dropped and the net circled around the school of fish and then progressively closed up

Size is irrelevant and many vessels multi task methods depending on the time of year.

Unfortunately fishermen have a reputation for never taking down day shapes or turning off lights.

W.

 

[Stemar]

Unfortunately fishermen have a reputation for never taking down day shapes or turning off lights.

There are several small fishing boats in Portsmouth harbour with day shapes welded to the mast. Doesn't much matter to me; if they're in the harbour entrance, they aren't fishing and can obey colregs, elsewhere, I'll just keep away. Apart from the amateur we upset several years ago who was anchored in the approach to the gap in the submarine barrier north of Horse Sand Fort, no more than 100 yards from the gap, making our close hauled approach even more difficult than it needed to be. He wasn't happy, but he shouldn't have been there.

 

[michael_w]

In my experience Spanish fishing boats are very good at turning on and off their fishing nav lights.

 

[Nigel_Ward]

I suggest you download this booklet. It describes all fishing methods.
Basic Fishing Methods

 

[Yealm]

I suggest you download this booklet. It describes all fishing methods.
Basic Fishing Methods

Thankyou fascinating and essential reading for all leisure boaters !
I didn't realise that a lobster pot buoy could mark multiple lobster pots all in a chain.

 

[Tomahawk]

Not according to a friend of mine who was a commercial fisherman for 40 years, who owns a yacht and who I've sailed with. Fishermen are just as keen as you to not get tangled in their nets.

Motering a very large cat past Eastbourn in the small hours, there was a fleet of fishing vessels about 5 miles off shore. I altered course early to get well clear and they seemed to follow me.. and again when I tried to go the other side.

 

[capnsensible]

Motering a very large cat past Eastbourn in the small hours, there was a fleet of fishing vessels about 5 miles off shore. I altered course early to get well clear and they seemed to follow me.. and again when I tried to go the other side.

They follow the fish on sonar, are aware of you and don't want you in their nets. They spend a massive amount of time out there and their seamanship is way beyond the leisure sailor. Plus, of course, they are getting your dinner!

I always treat fishing boats with respect, their ability to Manouver is, indeed, very restricted. ?

 

[GHA]

I suggest you download this booklet. It describes all fishing methods.
Basic Fishing Methods

Interesting read, ta.
Not very surprising that there aren't many fish left..

 

[fisherman]

Fixed gear boats (red over white) generally have a net or pot hauler forward on the stbd side.

Pots are normally rigged in a string, in my case it was 40 or 50, 15fm apart, each one attached to a leg, lanyard or polgrum (depending on which village) which is spliced or tucked into the backrope.

When hauling pots the boat has to follow the gear but also stem the tide, and this is where things go wrong: I’ve had boats coming towards me with the tide under them, because I look like I’m making 3-4 kts uptide, when in fact I’m hauling pots across the tide. There is 100fm of rope with 9 pots in a catenary back from the hauler, being swept across the bottom, if I stop they will find a hitch and come fast, and in this tide I may not be able to free them, I may have to turn and shoot away. I can’t stop and although I may be able to veer a little or drop astern it gives me a problem, possibly expensive.
Shooting away I must avoid any known hitches, but I may try to skim a wreck for the fish (crabs and lobsters are 'fish') in it. I have to watch out for ships (I'm 3-4 nm off the Lizard), and if my crewman gets caught up I must cut him out, quickly (twice in eight years). These days most boats have a shute overside or through the transom, so no handling.

Tangle and gill nets are shot with the tide and only hauled, with the tide, near slack water. Again, the boat has no choice where to go, and again cannot stop hauling.

A trawler (green over white), has a steel gantry, goalpost style, in the stern, often with a net drum high up, and a large multi barrel winch on the central deck, although these days it will be under cover. A beamer or scalloper, also towed gear, has derricks either side for lifting the gear aboard midships. A trawler has a net maybe 5x depth behind him, he also cannot change course, he is following a ‘tow’. Perversely these tows follow the old Decca lanes, as that’s what we had when we found them, but modern systems like Trax enable you to record random tows a lot more easily. If he stops the net may lose its catch, and if the tide sweeps it off the tow, again, a hitch will result with lost or damaged gear. Beamers tow with two derricks out, one each side, with a trawl behind each. They steam with the derricks down for stability and comfort.

A ring netter, (alternating orange vertical), drops a dahn, the steams round in a circle and picks it up again, then hauls in the bottom of the net from both ends to close it. Purse seiner about the same.

An anchor seiner, not seen much now, shoots an anchor and dahn, then a leaded rope warp, then the net, then another warp and back to the dahn. He sits on the anchor and hauls the net to the boat like a trawl, the work is done by the ropes herding the fish, the net is lightweight. Very fuel efficient, many boats up to 50ft only had 120hp.

 

[Yealm]

Fixed gear boats (red over white) generally have a net or pot hauler forward on the stbd side.

Pots are normally rigged in a string, in my case it was 40 or 50, 15fm apart, each one attached to a leg, lanyard or polgrum (depending on which village) which is spliced or tucked into the backrope.

When hauling pots the boat has to follow the gear but also stem the tide, and this is where things go wrong: I’ve had boats coming towards me with the tide under them, because I look like I’m making 3-4 kts uptide, when in fact I’m hauling pots across the tide. There is 100fm of rope with 9 pots in a catenary back from the hauler, being swept across the bottom, if I stop they will find a hitch and come fast, and in this tide I may not be able to free them, I may have to turn and shoot away. I can’t stop and although I may be able to veer a little or drop astern it gives me a problem, possibly expensive.
Shooting away I must avoid any known hitches, but I may try to skim a wreck for the fish (crabs and lobsters are 'fish') in it. I have to watch out for ships (I'm 3-4 nm off the Lizard), and if my crewman gets caught up I must cut him out, quickly (twice in eight years). These days most boats have a shute overside or through the transom, so no handling.

Tangle and gill nets are shot with the tide and only hauled, with the tide, near slack water. Again, the boat has no choice where to go, and again cannot stop hauling.

A trawler (green over white), has a steel gantry, goalpost style, in the stern, often with a net drum high up, and a large multi barrel winch on the central deck, although these days it will be under cover. A beamer or scalloper, also towed gear, has derricks either side for lifting the gear aboard midships. A trawler has a net maybe 5x depth behind him, he also cannot change course, he is following a ‘tow’. Perversely these tows follow the old Decca lanes, as that’s what we had when we found them, but modern systems like Trax enable you to record random tows a lot more easily. If he stops the net may lose its catch, and if the tide sweeps it off the tow, again, a hitch will result with lost or damaged gear. Beamers tow with two derricks out, one each side, with a trawl behind each. They steam with the derricks down for stability and comfort.

A ring netter, (alternating orange vertical), drops a dahn, the steams round in a circle and picks it up again, then hauls in the bottom of the net from both ends to close it. Purse seiner about the same.

An anchor seiner, not seen much now, shoots an anchor and dahn, then a leaded rope warp, then the net, then another warp and back to the dahn. He sits on the anchor and hauls the net to the boat like a trawl, the work is done by the ropes herding the fish, the net is lightweight. Very fuel efficient, many boats up to 50ft only had 120hp.

Thanks so much - fascinating details !