Fishing....Pedantic post?

[boatone]

Ok....so if you are out in your mobo and decide to do a spot of fishing, do you regard yourself as a Fishing Vessel under Rule 26 of the ColRegs and, if not....Why Not?

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[theguvnor]

Quiet morning for you ??

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[tcm]

ah, but I'm married, so for top pedantry we couldn't really be defined as "engaged" in fishing as per the letter of the colregs, now could we?

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[jhr]

Not. This is because I fail to meet a number of the criteria required for recognition as a fishing vessel. In particular, I fall short on the following:

- Ability to converse about the previous night's activities in the pub on VHF ship-to-ship channels, for hours on end, with fellow professionals.
- Possession of several manky rubber tyres affixed to topsides, ideal for touching in black paintwork on neighbouring craft.
- Fitment of minimum speed regulator on engine, set at 5 kts above appropriate harbour/river speed limits.
- Specialist expertise in laying lobster pots, and indicating their whereabouts by means of hi-tech plastic drums fitted with latest stealth technology.
- Ability to catch fish.

However, I find that I can get round most of the problems that these deficiencies cause by holding up the cockpit canopy on the end of my boathook, and shouting "Starboard"! very loudly, at anybody who comes too close.

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[BrendanS]

Rule 3 (General definitions)
The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manageability.

So anyone fishing off a pleasure boat with rod and line does not qualify under Rule 26 as they are not severely restricted in ability to maneuver. Doesn't apply to sports fishers, and usually only applies to commercial vessels

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[Wiggo]

My ability to manoeuvre is very severely restricted while trying to remove the hook on my son's spinner from my daughter's ear. I shall be investing in two black cones at once...

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[gonfishing]

I do a lot of fishing on the "drift" especially for Mackerel and Basss, engine shut down and up to 6 rods out, and quite obviously fishing {albeit for pleasure} so where does this fit in all the regs??? certainly not under power, and some times with a drogue over the back to control the drift so therefore restricted in ability to manouvre surely????


Julian

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by gonfishing on 05/07/2004 17:17 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[BrendanS]

There are loads of websites with interpretations of the regs. All of them unanimously state that the regs apply to commercial vessels (with nets, or miles of line?) and specifically exlude sports fishers. Most of them go out of their way to point out that fact that sports fishers are excluded. I haven't seen any that make the inclusion.

I guess if you feel that you *are* restricted by multiple lines and drogue, and couldn't maneouvre to avoid a collision in an emergency, you could argue that you are entitled to display the shapes. Do you display them currently?

If the drogue is hampering maneuverability, not fishing lines, then perhaps you should be displaying 'vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver' shapes?

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[boatone]

Rule 3d seems to cover gonfishing's case perfectly.........

3(d) The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls or other fishing apparatus which restrict manoeuvrability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manoeuvrability. (the bold words are my emphasis). In other words he should display.

Nowhere in the regs, to the best of my knowledge, is any distinction made between commercial and non commercial vessels and IMHO any interpretation relying on that basis is suspect...its all about size and function.

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[gonfishing]

I agree that the rules are laid down for a reason. However commonsense dictates that you don't operate these methods of fishing in the shipping lanes or a busy cruising area.How many of us (if any) in pleasure cruisers actually have these bits of kit on hand?? The guys on 50ft plus boats that come under SOLAS regs I suppose must do. However, and more to the point, how many people out there at the weekend would know what a ball or or triangle were for, let alone signal flags and lights?????? I can picture it now OOOOOHHHH thats boats got big black balls hanging up, and that ones got pretty flags it must be some kid of boaty Stag and Hen Party!!!!

All IMHO of course!!!!

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[BrendanS]

I'm no legal beagle and am not trying to interpret the regs in this grey area - just passing on my research. Official bodies such as the US coastguard and many others, state that sports fishers are not seen to be hampered in maneuverability by having lines from fishing rods overboard.

The spirit of the law as interpreted by the marine legal beagles seems to be that lines from rods don't hamper, while a few miles of long line, or a large net, does hamper.

As I say, not my interpretation, just summarising what I've found - and the theme does seem to be remarkably consistent

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[gonfishing]

Horses for courses

Ah!! now that throws a different light on things as I see it , you are refering this or comparing this scenario with the American term / description of Sport fishing, a totally different kind of fishing style, and way of behaviour,to that generally practised by PLEASURE fishermen in U.K waters
IMHO of course!!!

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[BrendanS]

Re: Horses for courses

Sport fishing does mean pleasure fishing in the US - it covers everything from fly fishing, shore casting through to offshore game fishing

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[boatone]

Re: Horses for courses

I think the issue here is who initially has to interpret the rules and this has to be the skipper at the time. gonfishing says he fishes in circumstances which restrict his ability to maneouver so he has to decide if he therefore needs to comply with the colregs. In many instances it wont matter but if his vessel is involved in an investigatable incident then the interpretation will become open to scrutiny by the legals and there may be differences of opinion ..........

I hasten to add that I an not a legal eagle either....just expressing an opinion based on the intimate knowledge of the colregs that I was once required to have in the day job.

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[BrendanS]

Re: Horses for courses

that's what I thought I said in reply to him earlier? If he thinks he is restricted, then he can argue he needs to show the shapes.

He does say however that he deploys a drogue - this confuses matters as it is not the fishing that is necessarily restricting his ability, but the fact that he has a drogue out, which is another story entirely?

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[boatone]

Re: Horses for courses

Dont think he needs to argue. The regs dont allow for ' may ' show shapes if he feels like it.
The drogue is only being used to assist the fishing so there is no need to regard it as a seperate entity.....the vessel is fishing with restricted maneouverability.....simple /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[BrendanS]

Re: Horses for courses

leaving drogues out of it for simplicity - if a few people on board have rods with fishing lines out, the important bit of the rule is:
" but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manoeuvrability"

There is nothing about fishing lines that restrict manoeuvrability. OK you might have a few pissed off fishermen onboard complaining about tangles lines and tackle, or possibly losing them on the seabed, but if a big container ship was bearing down on you, and you thought it hadn't seen you, you'd start engine and move, quickly! Not at all the same as a fishing boat with a bleedin great net behind it, or several miles of long line, or even 40 odd creels on a weighted line.

Some might and probably will argue that the lines might wrap around the prop, but until they do (and anyway, fishing monofil would probably snap unlike lobster pots lines) they are still manoeverable and can start engine and move off away from hypothetical container ship with speed and directional control

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[gonfishing]

Re: Horses for courses

Ah ! as I said earlier fishing in the way I do,and certainly a great deal of other fellow anglers does not involve fishing in the shipping lanes!!As for a Tanker bearing down on me,it would elicit a change of underware and a quick swim ashore and sod the balls I'll leave them where they are!!!.I have also been out on numerous Professionaly skippered, and on occassion with a qualified sea going Captain as part of a fishing exped, and not once have any of the navigational aids under col regs ever been displayed ??? To be fair we are talking Inshore/ Coastal waters ,not Blue water cruising in International shipping lanes??
I appreciate the situation is hypothetical and as Boatone stated Pendatic
Edudation and Knowledge , does not always add up to commonsense!! IMVVHO of course


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[BrendanS]

Re: Horses for courses

Common sense seems to be a major part. Pleasure fishermen don't show signals, and despite B1's contention about accident and going to court, I don't think the court would expect people out dayfishing to show signals, partly out of common sense, and partly because the regs seem to preclude sports (or pleasure) fishing boats to show them.

The spirit rather than letter of the law as interpreted by people who's job it is, seem to take the common sense attitude that a day fishing boat is not inherently restricted in it's ability to manoeuvre by having a few lines over the side, whereas a commerical fishing boat towing or pulling up large amounts of gear (and who might not have anyone at helm or keeping a watch) is an entirely different kettle of fish .....so to speak

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[BrendanS]

Having been drawn into this pedantry, I have to say I don't give a flying fish. Pleasure fishing boats are easy to spot. Usually stationary, and fairly obviously have rods deployed. Very easy to skirt

Commercial fishing vessels show signals for a reason - it's hard to know what they are doing, so I give them a very wide berth, and stay away from going behind them for obvious reasons. They usually have signals welded in place or permanently rigged, but you can often tell if they are fishing or not anyway.

Signals have a time and place, but these are amongst the least important as they are so often abused anyway.

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