Fishing boats lit up with very bright flood lights.

[john_morris_uk]

Sailing two handed from Milford Haven to the Scillies last week, we had two encounters with fishing boats as we approached TS scheme off Lands End which I thought others might be interested to hear of. The basic problem (and if its been commented on here before my apologies) is that the boats were lit up like Blackpool Illuminations on speed. All we could see from a few miles away was a VERY bright set of floodlights. We don't have AIS (yet) so by radar and by watching carefully it became evident that we were catching the first vessel up. Eventually I could make out through binoculars a green over white (fishing vessel trawling) but the boat also had two reds vertically (gear stuck fast) but these were almost completely obliterated by the flood lights. What was really confusing was that with the tidal current flowing, the vessel appeared to be under way... It was EXTREMELY difficult to make out what was happening because of the brightness of the flood lights, but one we realised that they were stuck fast, one excuses their illumination and sympathises with the attempts to get the gear free. Fishermen lose their lives in such circumstances and all was forgiven.

However having sorted that one out we passed a few cables off the port side of the boat and once clear I went to have a lie down. The lie down was disturbed by Mrs M's anxiety that there was another boat with very bright lights approaching and she couldn't make out what they were doing either. Eventually we overhauled it and discovered another fishing boat, gear out astern, gulls flying everywhere lit up by a series of extremely high powered flood lights off the back of the superstructure. This time the boat was displaying normal steaming lights and the appropriate green over white for a trawler but I could find no excuse for having the flood lights on.

Mrs M now says that we need AIS, which was on the shopping list anyway, but I wonder what the legality of having such high power lights is? I cannot over emphasise how bright they were and how they made seeing the other lights almost impossible. I freely confess that my tolerance was not helped by the lack of sleep and the relatively long passage two up. Mrs M is an outstanding sailing partner in many ways, but she does get anxious at night when she sees lights that she doesn't understand and obviously one can NEVER complain about being called to come and have a look...

 

[[70521]]

Fishing boats often don't turn their AIS on, but you knew that.

 

[bluerm166]

They may be static but the high level sodium lights at the M & S Faversham depot are also a pain in the butt as they totally destroy your night vision on the creek approach past the unlit buoys.

 

[DJE]

....but I wonder what the legality of having such high power lights is?

PART C - LIGHTS AND SHAPES
Rule 20
Application
(a) Rules in this Part shall be complied with in all weathers.
(b) The Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise and during such times
no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights as cannot be mistaken for the lights specified
in these Rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the
keeping of a proper look-out

- Seems pretty clear that they are illegal but I can't see that bothering the fishing fraternity.

 

[jerrytug]

If they are using such bright working lights, they must, by definition, be shattering the Rules by not keeping a lookout!
How could they see a yacht's sidelights?

Yet people say single handed sailing in a little yacht is breaking the Rules if you have a cat-nap!

Sorry I don't have a solution, except shining a spotlight to at least get their attention, or putting up a white parachute flare to illuminate the scene.

 

[ripvan1]

Jeez - get off your 'arris and give 'em sea room they're doing a hard enough thankless job as it is, and if you can see them from distance why go close.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I'm not sure that's a very helpful suggestion. Besides the obvious retort that we did give them enough room, how one is supposed to know that some strange lit up object is a fishing vessel if they show such lights.

Actually I have enormous respect for fishermen and I've known and worked with a few so I have some idea of how tough their life is.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Jeez - get off your 'arris and give 'em sea room they're doing a hard enough thankless job as it is, and if you can see them from distance why go close.

Interesting, we returned toFalmouth yesterday after 3 weeks in Scilly and entering the Fal at around 22-00 we were constantly blinded by extremely bright lights from the large ships moored both outside in the bay and one extremely bright amber light just off Trefusis point. It certainly didn't help our night vision!

 

[sailorman]

Fishing boats often don't turn their AIS on, but you knew that.

especially those under 300 T

 

[NorthUp]

especially those under 300 T

AIS required on FVs over 17 metres since last year.
If the deck lights of a vessel alongside are a problem, call 'em up on VHF and tell them- you wont be the first to do so,and receive a positive response.

 

[Wandering Star]

Jeez - get off your 'arris and give 'em sea room they're doing a hard enough thankless job as it is, and if you can see them from distance why go close.

Yep, seriously that's my take on it too! When approaching the Continental shelf it's sometimes like Blackpool pleasure beach but the lights never cause me any real problems.

 

[Vara]

Not quite as extreme, but it's a problem in the Dover strait, a lot of ships, ferrys being the main culprits, have so many extra lights that it is extremely hard to make out the basic Nav lights.

The problem is that the spec for Nav lights is based on old technology. I can clearly make out an aeroplanes Nav lights at 7 miles as they fly over. If ships have enough leccy to power deck lights they should have the power to have decent Nav lights.

PS. AIS with some limitations is good news.

 

[laika]

Jeez - get off your 'arris and give 'em sea room they're doing a hard enough thankless job as it is, and if you can see them from distance why go close.

Because at night, particularly when things are a bit lively, when all you can see is a blaze of light you can't tell the orientation of the thing. Add to that that it won't be travelling in a straight line at a constant speed but rather stopping still then zig-zagging about and when it moves it goes faster than you. And once you take avoiding action to give them a wide berth they won't give two hoots about changing course to a new vector which will intercept with you. I understand completely what john_morris_uk is saying and it's one of my least favourite scenarios.

 

[savageseadog]

It is a bit of a problem I agree. AIS is a big help, it means you can identify the vessel, speed and type, call them up and ask how to keep clear.

About three years ago in the dead of winter, at night on a delivery I came across a vessel just West of the Bishops and Clerks. They were about two miles away and had an absolutely blinding searchlight that they kept directing towards us, I had no idea what they were doing or what they wanted but the searchlight absolutely destroyed our vision.

 

[Wandering Star]

Because at night, particularly when things are a bit lively, when all you can see is a blaze of light you can't tell the orientation of the thing. Add to that that it won't be travelling in a straight line at a constant speed but rather stopping still then zig-zagging about and when it moves it goes faster than you. And once you take avoiding action they won't give two hoots about changing course to a new vector which will intercept with you. I understand completely what john_morris_uk is saying and it's one of my least favourite scenarios.

it's very unlikely the boat with the deck lights switched on is zig zagging around, changing speed etc, he's far more likely to. E stationary and hauling his nets, he may also be acting as a mother ship to a fleet of smaller boats. In my experience most fishing boats or trawlers do extinguish their floodlights as required. The floodlights are switched on maybe 15 minutes before hauling the nets and extinguished maybe an hour after shooting the nets. The lights are necessary for the deck crew to undertake their work in safety, preparing to haul, hauling, and shooting plus cleaning the decks of fish gut, repairing or servicing of gear. On a boat hauling and shooting nets in a typical 3 hour cycle, the off watch crew will then have possibly 2 hours of sleep before starting the cycle again. There are quite often more than one fishing boat in the same area, sometimes several. This is an industry that is running 24/7 so it may appear deck lights are being left on when they're not. Its up to us amateur sailors sailing toy boats for fun not to get mixed up amongst fishing fleets nor pass too close to individual boats - not the other way around surely? Yes, in my uncouth youth I was a trawlerman.

 

[jerrytug]

So just to be clear, a vessel which is going to catch some fish, is trying to, or was trying to catch some fish, is now EXEMPT from the Rules?
Have I got that straight?

 

[fishermantwo]

So just to be clear, a vessel which is going to catch some fish, is trying to, or was trying to catch some fish, is now EXEMPT from the Rules?
Have I got that straight?

The fishing industry world wide is under constant scrutiny. It's highly unlikely that a fishing vessel operating on sight of amateur mariners would be doing anything to jeopardize his license and endorsements.

 

[oldbilbo]

It's always been hard to determine what the dickens a specific fishing boat is doing, or even that it IS a 'vessel engaged in fishing, trawling'. I've worked on the basis of 'if it is lit up like a christmas tree such that one cannot discern type, aspect, status, then it is most probably a 'trawler, trawling'. How on earth is one supposed to suss in which direction the gear is lying, and keep clear, if one cannot make out the nav lights?

Perhaps the most puzzling in recent years was a string of 5 boats encountered off the Spanish west coast, at night. These each had a pair of extremely bright yellow sodiums, visible throught the drizzle for many miles, and they seemed to be strung out in a line, with 3 or 4 miles between them. They were probably tuna-fishing, but whetehr with drift nets or long lines, I couldn't determine. There was nothing to indicate they were pair-trawling, or each using a small boat guarding one end of a drift net, or that they were physically linked to each other in any way.

We couldn't raise them on VHF, and puzzled over how to pass them safely.

Despite inquiries, I still don't have a clue what they were doing.... or rather, how they were doing it.

 

[laika]

Its up to us amateur sailors sailing toy boats for fun not to get mixed up amongst fishing fleets nor pass too close to individual boats - not the other way around surely?

I was not advocating passing close to fishing vessels: that would be madness. I was simply agreeing with the original post that it is difficult to tell important information about a vessel which is ablaze with spot lights. I wasn't even being critical, just saying it's not always that easy to judge what the thing behind the blaze of light is doing. Perhaps the vessel you worked on would switch off all lights other than required nav lights when under way and maintain course and speed when in a potential collision situation with another vessel but this has not always been my experience with every intensely lit fishing vessels in all parts of the world.

 

[ripvan1]

Through a good pair of binoculars one can normally make out stern arch of well lit up vessel and act accordingly. (PS: lights are there for a reason)

I'd still like to know which rule is being broken by these working boats, no different to cruise ship and ferries -are they breaking this rule also?