Fishing boat clearly in the wrong bumps into stern of large sailing yacht (video)

[sailorman]

Clearly two vessels both of which were big enough to argue the point.
Personally in my little 34 footer if I see a big commercial boat I always aim to pass astern even if it means me dropping sails or turn off course.Never mind about collision regs!

Why hand the sails offshore, or anywhere

 

[mainsail1]

I agree. The argument here seems to be that if you hit a lamp post with your car the lamp post is partly to blame!

 

[macd]

The argument here seems to be that if you hit a lamp post with your car the lamp post is partly to blame!

If the lamppost in question has the power to move and change direction, then perhaps it is.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/man_gored_by_feral_lamppost

 

[john_morris_uk]

Clearly two vessels both of which were big enough to argue the point.
Personally in my little 34 footer if I see a big commercial boat I always aim to pass astern even if it means me dropping sails or turn off course.Never mind about collision regs!

I don't want to drift this thread, but your behaviour can be really confusing and even annoying to bridge watchkeepers on large ships. Yours is not an unusual behaviour, but ships expect other people (even in 34 ft boats) to comply with IRPCS... Might I humbly suggest that you please read other threads on the subject.

 

[Fascadale]

Good morning

While on the whole I agree that yachts should adhere to the colregs and when required should stand on the behaviour of the "Andrea" as illustrated in this video is fairly compelling evidence that not all watchkeepers are to be trusted.

Being struck by the Andrea would have destroyed my boat.

 

[bedouin]

Good morning

While on the whole I agree that yachts should adhere to the colregs and when required should stand on the behaviour of the "Andrea" as illustrated in this video is fairly compelling evidence that not all watchkeepers are to be trusted.

Being struck by the Andrea would have destroyed my boat.

Not a fair comparison - you can probably change direction in your boat much faster than a square-rigged sailing ship. The point is that by the time it became apparent that the FV was not going to act there was nothing the SV could do

 

[Fascadale]

Not a fair comparison - you can probably change direction in your boat much faster than a square-rigged sailing ship. The point is that by the time it became apparent that the FV was not going to act there was nothing the SV could do

Agreed

The discussion keeps coming back to where and when did it become apparent to the SV that the FV was not going to act. It has been authoritatively argued by a naval gentleman that the SV should have made an assessment as much as 2nms out and initiated avoiding action then. Does this mean that we should assume that FVs will not adhere to the colregs?

 

[Conachair]

Does this mean that we should assume that FVs will not adhere to the colregs?

Seems very sensible to assume that it's possible now and again.

 

[fireball]

Be interested in what the court said to the Master / OOW of the sailing ship. Once it was clear that the 'give way' vessel was not taking sufficient (any) action it was his responsibility to take sufficient action. He failed to do so. (Rule 2 from memory)

She seems to be under sail on starboard tack. A turn to starboard may have required her to tack, I don't suppose that is something you can do very quickly in a ship like that.

An option would be to use auxiliary power .. assuming it is (readily) available ... on with the donk and full ahead/astern + steer or not ... opens the available options up ...

 

[fireball]

I think many people on here are deluding themselves about how much difference the engines would make on that SV. Engaging forward propulsion might not have made and difference at all.... but without familiarity with the vessel in question its an impossible guess.

Ah - there you go - I really should've read the whole thread!

 

[Woodlouse]

An option would be to use auxiliary power .. assuming it is (readily) available ... on with the donk and full ahead/astern + steer or not ... opens the available options up ...

The problem is even if power is readily available then acceleration and deceleration will be really rather slow and still might not be enough. I would assume the skipper considered the option of using the engine but I suspect that by the time it was clear the fishing boat wasn't going to miss it was too late to do anything at all.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

The discussion keeps coming back to where and when did it become apparent to the SV that the FV was not going to act.

I know that hindsight from an armchair is a wonderful gift, but one could argue that when the helmsman had started to sound his horn he was aware of a problem.
I don't know what else he could have done though. It's all guesswork.

 

[macd]

Be interested in what the court said to the Master / OOW of the sailing ship.)

There's nothing to suggest that the master or anyone else on board the sailing ship was even present in court, nor would they need to be since the defendant pleaded guilty. This was a magistrates' court, remember, not any sort of tribunal: it was none of its business to determine proportions of blame, but simply to decide whether the defendant (the Andrea's watchkeeper) was guilty as charged and, if so, what the penalty should be.

 

[fireball]

The problem is even if power is readily available then acceleration and deceleration will be really rather slow and still might not be enough. I would assume the skipper considered the option of using the engine but I suspect that by the time it was clear the fishing boat wasn't going to miss it was too late to do anything at all.

Then - if you're skipper of a vessel with very limited manoeuvrability shouldn't you be taking avoiding action sooner rather than later? Perhaps they did and it's just apparent in the clip?

 

[Woodlouse]

Then - if you're skipper of a vessel with very limited manoeuvrability shouldn't you be taking avoiding action sooner rather than later? Perhaps they did and it's just apparent in the clip?

It's a tricky situation. If you are unmanuverable and the stand on vessel then to start dodging boats that might be trying to avoid you could cause more problems that it solves. When the boat coming at you has the power and manuverability that the fishing boat had then it is quite likely that it wouldn't take avoiding action before it was too late for the square rigger to do so instead. This is really a widespread disregard for taking early and clear avoiding action when required, like it or not there are vessels out there, such as square riggers and large container ships that don't have the manuverability to take drastic avoiding action in the last second, yet they also can't take avoiding action too early because they won't always need to, it'll make them unpredictable and hazardous to other shipping and they'd never be able to get anywhere.

 

[prv]

If the sailing boat is basically unsteerable [...]
Are all sailing boats like that or only the big ones?

All sailing vessels have limitations on their available course that don't apply to motor boats. Depending on our current angle to the wind we may be able to turn either way quite quickly, or we may be able to turn easily one way but not the other. Sometimes we may be in a position where we cannot come any further left (for example) but to turn right would undo the last half hour or more of effort so we are reluctant to do it unless we really have to. This is why, except in special circumstances like narrow channels, traffic schemes, or awkward working gear, all motor vessels give way to all sailing vessels.

That said, small sailing boats are vastly more manoeuvrable than sailing ships. All our boats could have spun away from that fishing vessel right to the last minute.

Pete

 

[DJE]

Depending on our current angle to the wind we may be able to turn either way quite quickly, or we may be able to turn easily one way but not the other. Sometimes we may be in a position where we cannot come any further left (for example) but to turn right would undo the last half hour or more of effort so we are reluctant to do it unless we really have to.

And usually turning one way will increase our speed while turning the other way will reduce it.

 

[sailorman]

It's a tricky situation. If you are unmanuverable and the stand on vessel then to start dodging boats that might be trying to avoid you could cause more problems that it solves. When the boat coming at you has the power and manuverability that the fishing boat had then it is quite likely that it wouldn't take avoiding action before it was too late for the square rigger to do so instead. This is really a widespread disregard for taking early and clear avoiding action when required, like it or not there are vessels out there, such as square riggers and large container ships that don't have the manuverability to take drastic avoiding action in the last second, yet they also can't take avoiding action too early because they won't always need to, it'll make them unpredictable and hazardous to other shipping and they'd never be able to get anywhere.

I would have thought that the SV would have been transmitting AIS

 

[Woodlouse]

I would have thought that the SV would have been transmitting AIS

Absolutely. But not much good if there's no one on watch on the fishing boat.

 

[sailorman]

Absolutely. But not much good if there's no one on watch on the fishing boat.

Quite so