Fischer Panda 5000i Neo

[Bouba]

It's double cooled -- that means water through the engine and the windings
That's ok in theory .
Remember before any buts in we talking small genys perhaps infrequently used and often on 30-40 ft out drive boats stuffed in some hard to get @ corner ! --left stewing -pickling in salt water --- Nice !--

I had a FP albeit older 2003 4.2 Kv with the Farryman -factory SSeeker instal -- it's all they had @ the time .

Basic issue is the anodic protection of the winding s --it was a sizeable replaceable "water conection block "
Avoid it ,or when installing make it easy to get at .
How -ever being "German" and engineering wise they may have found a better way to protect the windings .
As mentioned new in house engine -- two sides of the toast as it drops -- one -being German ,it's engineering excellence ( rest of the world -kubota ,Yanmar -- not good enough !) -
Or --- you are the guinea pig -- bless em
Sure 75 kg is an eye opener -but that excludes the inverter PME thingy say 8 Kg
My MASE is 95 kg all up in a sound proof box for comp 3.5 Kv -- but brings /opens up 220 v and long stays at anchor in the Hot Med .Its also air cooled and Yanmar powered -no seawater runs through the windings or the engine .
2001 -still going -Last time I looked @ Cannes not for off @€7 -8 k - ish ??

So its a €17K or a seemingly €6k question .
Land your toast butter side up --ck out the anodic protection -pray the Germans can do a small diesel --pretty good odds !
Go for it ------- and promise to report back annually .

Which Geny is OEM --for instal comparision re space ?

The OEM is the 6kva Onan, there's plenty of room for it and I suppose it would fit very nicely with the Cummins engine, only one service man a year and when I do the three day Cummins engine course I would be able to service them both.
The Onan is 17000€ fitted, the FP is 6400€ including tax plus extras like exhaust etc plus fitting. The very nice young lady at the FP stand at the boat show took my details and I hope to get some kind of quote soon for fitting.
I will investigate Mase

 

[Bouba]

All parts available from every ware inc Halliday Marine on Porqueroles --don,t ask me how I know .

Nothing closer? Porquerolles are nearly twenty minutes away from me by boat

 

[Bouba]

Have you looked at purchasing a Onan here in the U.K? A 4kW would be around £6100 from a dealer -http://www.seapowermarine.com/parts-shop/cummins-onan/generator-sales/generators/mdkbh2015-10-03-04-12-591108380665/mdkbh-4kw-12-volt-negative-ground-details.html

Regards Anthony

I will look into that. The 4kva Onan at the boat show was over 10000€ less than 2000€ cheaper than the 6kva, the extras and fitting were the same price. I though the saving wasn't worth getting the smaller Onan v the bigger.
If I bought British I would have the shipping cost (which won't be too much?) but then I have to convince Onan France to fit it and guarantee it. It could be tricky

 

[Bouba]

Some basics to consider here ...

Non Inverter models have to run at either 3000 RPM 2 pole or 1500 RPM 4 pole to produce 50 hz output. 50 cycles per second x 60 secs = 3,000. A four pole generator will produce the same output at half the speed.

Single cylinder engines do not carry enough momentum at 1500 rpm so have to rev at 3000 rpm this makes them noisy.

Most 1500 rpm engines will be twin cylinder providing a power stroke every revolution and will run quieter.

Either will simply produce a true sine wave output so no trouble with the kit being driven from this power source.

Then if you use an inverter generator the shaft speed doesn't matter, the engine will rev up to produce more power and slow for less. It is the inverters job to maintain a fixed output frequency and voltage. The issue with inverters is how complex they are to produce a proper sine wave output.

The traditional Farymann driven generator of ~ 4kVA is almost always a generic of the Paguro unit using a Volpi alternator. The various manufacturers simply dress them slightly differently, but essentially they are the same unit - Westerbeke, Fischer Panda, Mastervolt, etc. all Paguro really. These are simple raw water cooled engines and will serve occasional users well, but are prone to exhaust valve corrosion. Having said this the one on my Turbo 36 had accrued all of 65 hours after 28 years. But it was difficult and expensive because of exhaust valve issues due to the salt water sitting just below it in the water cooled exhaust.

So does 2 hours per annum justify ~£8k to install plus annual repair bill of ~ £50 - 100 ? Or perhaps some extra batteries at ~ £100 each.

I agree that no geny is cheaper than a geny, that's why I didn't spec it when I bought the boat. But after a while you realise the difference between luxury and camping is electricity.
A geny will allow me to run a heater in winter so I save the cost of fitting a diesel heater and be able to use my waterpick

 

[Bouba]

Hey folks, some great replys. Don't stop keep em coming

 

[ARE]

I will look into that. The 4kva Onan at the boat show was over 10000€ less than 2000€ cheaper than the 6kva, the extras and fitting were the same price. I though the saving wasn't worth getting the smaller Onan v the bigger.
If I bought British I would have the shipping cost (which won't be too much?) but then I have to convince Onan France to fit it and guarantee it. It could be tricky

6kW is around £7800 here and the Onan warranty is worldwide, so no issues there. I would go for the 7kW 1500rpm unit if you have the room? Superquiet with an exhaust gas water separator.

Anthony

 

[Bouba]

6kW is around £7800 here and the Onan warranty is worldwide, so no issues there. I would go for the 7kW 1500rpm unit if you have the room? Superquiet with an exhaust gas water separator.

Anthony

Anthony, can you help me sort out the Onan range, they have marine generators in 6, 7 and 7.5.
Is the 7 best? Is it even more expensive? Is the 6 quiet as well?

 

[ARE]

Anthony, can you help me sort out the Onan range, they have marine generators in 6, 7 and 7.5.
Is the 7 best? Is it even more expensive? Is the 6 quiet as well?

So the three medium speed units at 50hz are, 4,6 and 8kW.

The 1500rpm units start at 7kW and then 9.5, 11, 13.5, 17.5, 19 etc.

Noise wise the 7kW is very good, 65dB at 1m with full load. The 6kW is 69dB at 1m with full load.

Regards Anthony

 

[Bouba]

So the three medium speed units at 50hz are, 4,6 and 8kW.

The 1500rpm units start at 7kW and then 9.5, 11, 13.5, 17.5, 19 etc.

Noise wise the 7kW is very good, 65dB at 1m with full load. The 6kW is 69dB at 1m with full load.

Regards Anthony

Thanks for that:encouragement:
I can feel price creep coming in

 

[Bouba]

Just got the quote for the installation of the FP in my boat.
With the silence package it totals all in at 8658€ including vat. There is an extra 500 plus vat for the waterlock exhaust etc.
I think I will arrange a visit to see if they can show me an installed one to see how loud it is with the kettle and tv on.
That doesn't sound too bad a price for a diesel generator, any opinions?
There is no mention of a stand to place it on, is it necessary?

 

[Eren]

Just got the quote for the installation of the FP in my boat.
With the silence package it totals all in at 8658€ including vat. There is an extra 500 plus vat for the waterlock exhaust etc.
I think I will arrange a visit to see if they can show me an installed one to see how loud it is with the kettle and tv on.
That doesn't sound too bad a price for a diesel generator, any opinions?
There is no mention of a stand to place it on, is it necessary?

I think with such price level you are mot that far from a proper Onan, which is really very quiet, comes with the exhaust seperator, remote start panel etc.

 

[Bouba]

I think with such price level you are mot that far from a proper Onan, which is really very quiet, comes with the exhaust seperator, remote start panel etc.

Fully fitted it's about 7,000€ cheaper. I can source an Onan from the U.K. which would be cheaper (still researching that) and I can put a smaller Onan in to bring the price down.

 

[Rgrwynne]

All I can tell you is that I have an FP 8000, fitted, which runs at 3000rpm. It is very quiet, very reliable and very compact, and would have to recommend the brand. Their people are always very helpful when you need to talk.
Good luck with your decision , Rgds, Roger

 

[Bouba]

Hi everybody, time to revive this old thread of mine. Since the last entry, FP finally (after much badgering) had an installed 5000i Neo to show me. This morning we went to the Port Le Brusc just off the Île de la Tour Fondue which is just west of Toulon, all very nice. Now I was expecting to go on a boat similar to mine, instead we went to a 20 foot cuddy electric drive fully solar powered with the FP purely as a backup. It was actually installed in the heads. Now I'm not being critical of the boat, I think that an electric solar powered boat with a backup generator would be a pretty neat thing to have.
It didn't have the gas/water separator with the water discharged underwater, which of course I knew all about (thanks Portofino:encouragement Actually I want to thank everyone who contributed, I learned a lot. But even when I ignored the water discharge I couldn't help but come to the conclusion that it's a noisy blighter!
I'm sure that for a tiny diesel in a small box running at 3000rpm that this is as quiet as it comes but I don't think it's for me. It's quiet enough not to be antisocial and also for occasional use but you wouldn't want to watch telly with it on.
The dealer is searching for another boat with one installed (he is also the Kohler dealer). I think an Onan beckons.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

I've got a 4kw Onan MDKBH installed in the engine compartment of my Targa 40 in Port Vauban, if you want to come and have a listen. It is very quiet, to the extent that we forget it is running sometimes when sitting the cockpit.

 

[Bouba]

I've got a 4kw Onan MDKBH installed in the engine compartment of my Targa 40 in Port Vauban, if you want to come and have a listen. It is very quiet, to the extent that we forget it is running sometimes when sitting the cockpit.

Thanks Jimmy, that's very kind of you. The week after next would be good for us, are you around then?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Thanks Jimmy, that's very kind of you. The week after next would be good for us, are you around then?

Honestly don't know yet, I may come down on Friday for a few days but I probably won't decide until Thursday. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Bouba]

Honestly don't know yet, I may come down on Friday for a few days but I probably won't decide until Thursday. I'll keep you posted.

No probs:encouragement:

 

[Richard.C]

I've got a 4kw Onan MDKBH installed in the engine compartment of my Targa 40 in Port Vauban, if you want to come and have a listen. It is very quiet, to the extent that we forget it is running sometimes when sitting the cockpit.

What rpm do the small Onan's run at Jimmy? I had a thought they were also 3000rpm.

Don't worry, found it already. Documentation I found states 2400rpm.

 

[KellysEye]

We inherited a 3,000 rpm Lombardini generator, we subsequently found out their life is 500 to 1,00 hours. Ours had be scrapped at 550 hours as cylinder and piston damage would need a replacement. We replaced it with a 1,500 rpm generator which has a life of 8,000 hours, it is possible to pass that.