First river cruiser, no real experience, asking for trouble?

Thanks all, the good advice keeps on coming!

Sorry, by my Wife's comment that it had been fine until now, that was a reference to the fact it hadn't exploded being a petrol inboard, not the running condition of it.

The only reason we didn't stomp off in disgust after the test run was because of the engine. It had sat for a fair while (it had been Winterised) without being run.
So, it took a fair amount of cranking to start it as the fuel lines had been drained by closing the fuel shut-off valve and allowing it to run out.
Once the fuel was through, it started easily and with a minimal amount of Blue smoke and with no rattles.
I'd requested to see it start from cold and from previous car engine experience, I'm satisfied that the engine is in good shape.
I've seen a lot of cruisers motoring up and down followed by a small haze of smoke but after the initial startup, this one didn't blow any.
The oil was also clean before and after running it.

Current owner has had it 8 Years, change of circumstance has forced the sale (divorce) so it seems genuine enough.

Funnily enough, one of the previous owners is actually a member on here. It was by pure chance when he pm'd me regarding a different vessel and we met up that it transpired that this was the boat he'd owned in the 80's!
Obviously a lot of time has passed since then, but it's another little slice of past history.
 
I had a Petrol powered Birchwood, and it was no problem, however, I always turned the blower on for a few minutes before starting, and they stayed on while the engine was running. Also. the electrics (HT leads, Rotor arm, cap etc) were always as-new, and it was a shaft drive.

The Diesel broom was less stress, and fuel was far cheaper, as it used a bit less, and was cheaper per litre.

Self maintenance is fine, as long as it's done properly, and there are good and bad on either side of the fence!!

On balance however, a Diesel will sell faster, and easier than any petrol.

Outdrives? Well OMC went bust ages ago, which isn't a good start. Shaft drive costs pennies to run, while any outdrive is £500-1000 every two years, which is a lot of fuel isn't it?

Try hard to find a Diesel with shaft drive if you can, otherwise budget for extra running costs, and inconvenience if there are no Petrol fuel stops nearby!!

Simple sound engineering will cost a chunk less in the long run!! ;)
 
Don't know if this will help or not, but this is the story of our first boat on the Thames (after a couple of years hiring). It was a Seamaster 27.

It was priced a bit over the odds as it had a nearly new (16 hours or so) Beta 35hp diesel engine on shaft, but we'd spent a good 6 months looking at sooo much **** before finding it, but it seemed worth the extra compared to some of the other boats we'd seen (and believe me there were LOADS, freemans, Fjord 27 Selcruisers, pointy modern petrol sports cruisers...) I guess it depends what you want to do with it (day trips, entertaining or weeks away?) and how much space you need for fishing gear/dogs/children etc., but we were drawn towards the older 70's stuff with a bedroom we could call our own and shut the dogs out of! :)

The only down side was that it's deck had been painted about 6 times (badly) which meant lots of long winter days stripping and prepping to get it looking good again. It also had a bit too much fancy wood trim on the outside (which needs attention ever two years or so or it looks like ****e) There was also a need to strengthen the spongy front deck from underneath (which was the worlds worst job for the OH) and we ended up fitting a calorifier hot water system too (after several silly quotes) but the local canal shop helped us out here with advice on that so we did it ourselves on a small budget.

We had 3 fabulous years on it, either chilling out in the marina or off mooching at weekends and all our week's holidays from work were aboard going up and down from Bray (we have 2 big dogs so can't really go abroad any more) eventually we sold it for pretty much what we paid earlier this year. A chap from up north bought it to put on the Preston canal & got it transported up north.

Do miss it though...plotting for another next year maybe (with less wood)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25739174@N05/5503466837/

Forgot to say...Seamaster club = very helpful, and friendly too.

Basic running costs = £5k per annum (mooring at Bray, licence, fuel, self-servicing, varnish, upgrading parts etc!)








Emma
 
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We just learnt as we went along, first marina was at Yalding, non tidal medway nice and safe to learn on, locks a real pita!
I think you will use more than a couple of gallons of fuel a day, our 3,2 v6 uses 1 gph at 5/6 knots.
No ones ever said anything to me about refuelling the boat on the pontoon.
You will need fire exts for the boat safety cert, this costs 130 pounds which is needed to obtain the river licence which is 270 pounds!
Plus whatever you need to spend to get the boat through the boat safety scheme.
We have now moved down to the tidal medway, only cost is the marina fee, which is virtually the same as Yalding!
So work out the costs as you may by surprised.
Been at Port Medway marine a month or two now, seems a nice enough place, staff helpful and always someone about unlike at Yalding


Lynall
 
Thanks all, and that was a beautiful boat Emma :)

Will have a hunt around then and get some worse case costs from the engineer on the outdrive.
Lynall, many thanks for the PM, very helpful.
I think initially we will have to stick with the non-tidal river, although longer term I'd certainly like to be tidal.
It's all catch 22 situations though, the ongoing fees are far cheaper on the tidal stretch but then you need a better boat to start with!
My Wife really doesn't want to be on the tidal river though so it's something we'd have to try out on day trips first.

EDIT: Forgot to add. This is, of course, our first boat so even we don't know what we want out of it! I imagine we won't really have any idea of what path we wish to take for a couple of Years yet which makes the job of picking a craft a little difficult!
 
Carb

Hi

I have experience of the Mercruiser 120 and also carburettor problems, they do have a habit of bogging out , my advice is make sure a new one is fitted and not a repair/recon/overhaul as all of these wont cure the problem
 
Problem on my carbs was wear on spindles,which caused the thing to run very weak, would frequently stall when you opened the throttles in hurry leaving you staring at the bows of some vast ship bearing down on you at 20 knots.:)
 
Thames boat Sales have a selection of sub-£9000 boats available, a couple with the venerable Ford Crossflow engine (Parts cost pennies!!) and Shaft drive.

Pop in and take a look, see what you think.

Think hard about re saleability too. If you either want to upgrade, or get out of boating, it's essential you can sell it within a reasonable amount of time, and for a sensible price.

Diesel on Shaft is always the first to sell, regardless of the price, because there are always loads of cheap petrol powered craft available!!

You'll get your money back on a decent boat, and save loads on the running costs too! :D
 
+1 for Thames Boat Sales...always seemed like very helpful peeps (and no, I'm not on commission, sadly)

You probably do need to decide what the main uses for the boat are going to be first though as it will help you decide if you need any decent sleeping/cooking/bathroom facilities on board, which will determine the size of boat requied. Some people only ever use theirs for day trips or entertaining friends for the day which means more cockpit/deck space and less cabin/bedroom comfort. It can be hard to find everything you might need in one neat/affordable package!
 
Murv, limited budgets and old outdrives are not good bed-mates. I'm now based on The Broads where I see plenty of boats with old out-drives, the owners of which have torn their hair out. For pootling around at low speeds hulls fitted with out-drives don't tend to be best suited, indeed often most unsuitable. Personally I wouldn't touch such a boat, especially for river use. Good advice about outboards.
 
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Thanks all, I'm almost getting the feelin that outdrives aren't popular in general ;)

Had a look at Thames boat sales, there's only one sub £10K which is diesel and shaft drive, but it's quite big at 27'
There are a couple more suitable petrol's, but they don't state the drive type so I'm guessing they're not going to be shaft.

DukeII said:
You probably do need to decide what the main uses for the boat are going to be first though as it will help you decide if you need any decent sleeping/cooking/bathroom facilities on board, which will determine the size of boat requied. Some people only ever use theirs for day trips or entertaining friends for the day which means more cockpit/deck space and less cabin/bedroom comfort. It can be hard to find everything you might need in one neat/affordable package!
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And therein lies the main problem, we just don't know!
I think we need a reasonable sized inland cruiser that is capable of venturing further afield occasionally.
It certainly needs to be able two accommodate two adults and a near teenager plus large dog for overnight stays but as experienced caravan campers we don't need a palace sized craft.

We've aborted the purchase on the Seamaster, the trial was off-putting with two breakdowns in 10 minutes and my Daughter was quite frightened by the whole experience when the engine died and we drifted rapidly towards the sluice gates.

There is another possibility on the horizon, a Fairline holiday that although has an outdrive, was recently serviced with all receipts to prove as well as repowered with a new turbo diesel engine in the last 10 Years so we have expressed a provisional interest in that.
Starting to wonder now if a tidal river mooring may be the best over the Winter as the non tidal stretch is still in flood and is looking to be at high risk all through the Winter.
We'll also keep on looking around
 
Murv said:
There is another possibility on the horizon, a Fairline holiday that although has an outdrive, was recently serviced with all receipts to prove as well as repowered with a new turbo diesel engine in the last 10 Years so we have expressed a provisional interest in that.
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If it's the boat I think it is at Bray, it's been on the market for over a year so the seller might be well motivated :confused:. Again, if it's one of the same, the engine came from a Ford Transit and was marinised very successfully. One year it made it to MDL Chatham with no problems. However, don't expect much more than 6-8mph flat out.
 
Real Men do it on the Medway.

If your going to keep it down here on the tidal Medway (ie. civilisation),you can get the best of both worlds.Winter boating in the estuary is available without the restrictions that are rather obvious at the moment on the Thames.You have the added advantages of being able to access the upper Medway about an hour away up river and having the Thames on your doorstep for those longer trips away from home but without the expence and need for assorted bits of paper for permanent mooring.
Delightful as the Thames is,the delights of leaving your marina for a quiet quick trip out only to find 20 forumites including FSOB in front of you in the que for the lock,will diminish after a while. :)
A small well looked after diesel Fairline with some providence would be an ideal boat for both tasks.
 
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lynall said:
Surely must go faster than 6/8 mph with a 2.4/5 turbo diesel?


Lynall
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Nope. Was on it soon after it was re-engined. Owner looked at re-propping but all the companies he spoke to came back saying what was fitted was the right prop.

Just noticed that there's another Fairline Holiday at <£10k on the Medway (Boatshop 24), even has a derv lump ;).
 
I'd go look for a Seamaster 27 or an Elysian 27 - both old boats but both built like the proverbial outhouses - ie tough as old boots as both originally built in the days when builders expected to market many of their boats into the hire fleet market so the hulls had to be strong.

Engines most often Perkins 4.107m or 4.108m diesels, coupled to shafts with TMP or Ferguson oil-operated boxes and again almost bomb proof. Sure 4.107's are dated and near the end of life but bits are still readily available and a good one is a good old lump.

Most importantly - you have a diesel on a shaft, a wide beam boat, more so in the case of the roomy Elysian, a solid boat well made, a comfortable and economical boat, and one that will happily trundle down the tideway although not quickly. As a river cruiser a very comfortable boat, in which you can fit a calorifier, which means free hot water, to run a shower if it does not already have one, and also can fit a diesel heater.

What more could you want?
 
I note that since my condemnation of stern-drives no one has come to their defense, I wonder why!

I'm glad that the original poster has withdrawn from that first potential purchase. Get the right boat and it will hold its value.

I have watched small stern-drives going slowly along the river like crabs, the keel-less, rudderless hulls unable to hold their course.

If a good boat is outside of budget then I would hang on until the budget is greater.
 
Thank you all, really appreciate the help from all and the wealth of advice I've had by pm, thank you all very much.
However, my head hurts now and I think I'll just upgrade the caravan instead :D

OK, I have one final question that I hope you can shed some light on.

If I moor on the non-tidal stretch, and go out for a quick spin and then break down I'll just think bugger.
I can then drop anchor and either slot the electric outboard on or call a very nice man to come and rescue me.
Or, if it really came to it, I could paddle the thing back.

If the same thing happens on the tidal stretch, I could slot the seagull on the back and hope for the best I guess but if that were to fail I'd be in big trouble.
Plus, there's the risk of going aground, hitting an old wreck or something plus all the commercial traffic going up and down. It just seems (to someone who's never done it) far more risky? OK, I could go out with someone else but it would massively cut down the impulsive early morning trips that I enjoy out on my little dingy.
Would I not need to study navigation laws and get used to charts and plotting and whatever else sea going skippers need to do?
Or, am I way off the mark?
 
Penton Hooker said:
I note that since my condemnation of stern-drives no one has come to their defense, I wonder why!

I'm glad that the original poster has withdrawn from that first potential purchase. Get the right boat and it will hold its value.

I have watched small stern-drives going slowly along the river like crabs, the keel-less, rudderless hulls unable to hold their course.

If a good boat is outside of budget then I would hang on until the budget is greater.
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Alright I will bite;) my last 3 boats spanning 20 years have all had sterndrives, 1x Enfield, 1x BMW, 2 x Volvo. In that time I have maintained them myself and not spent much more than about £1200 total over 20 years, I have never had a problem outside of normal maintainance.

The problem with old boats and especially sterndrives is the previous owners, shafts will stand a lot of neglect, sterndrives need servicing even if never used. My advice is by a well used boat with loads of hours, much better chance that it has been looked after, you will never see a worn out boat through over use. If you buy on condition doesn't really matter if petrol, diesel, shaft or stern, anything works on the river :)
 
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