First 211 standing rigging

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antcollins

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Ello,

When I dropped the mast on my First 211 in October I found a couple of split strands at the top of the forestay so I think it's a prudent time to renew the lot and be sure. I live in Germany though I pop back to the UK semi regularly and would sooner do the talking in English. The standing rigging is simple on the F211 and so I was thinking of just taking the lot to a UK yard/supplier and just get it copied? Will this be a problem for the suppliers or the insurance?

Also the boats manual lists the shrouds and forestay as 4mm and the backstay as 3mm. If I up these by 1mm will it improve strength or cause me any problems?

Ant
 
antcollins said:
Ello,

When I dropped the mast on my First 211 in October I found a couple of split strands at the top of the forestay so I think it's a prudent time to renew the lot and be sure. I live in Germany though I pop back to the UK semi regularly and would sooner do the talking in English. The standing rigging is simple on the F211 and so I was thinking of just taking the lot to a UK yard/supplier and just get it copied? Will this be a problem for the suppliers or the insurance?

Also the boats manual lists the shrouds and forestay as 4mm and the backstay as 3mm. If I up these by 1mm will it improve strength or cause me any problems?

Ant
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no prob to either why not just fedex the lot after getting a price
east coast forum had a thread on local riggers a while ago, i am sure all would do via mail order
 
Out of interest how easy is it to drop the mast on these, I am considering one of these as a genuine trailer/sailer and would like to know how long the rigging up takes, also what is the all up weight for trailing purposes as I would have to get an appropiate vehicle.
 
Mast dropping

banger said:
Out of interest how easy is it to drop the mast on these, I am considering one of these as a genuine trailer/sailer and would like to know how long the rigging up takes, also what is the all up weight for trailing purposes as I would have to get an appropiate vehicle.
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Once you have the hang of it (and I am still getting the hang of it) and the bridal set up to support lateral movement, and the spinnaker pole as leverage, it's fine. I would allow an hour and a half once you have practiced. Mine came with a neat diagram and instructions (in French). I tried it first at my club and had the Germans watching on from the club bar terrace. Lessons learned: You may wish to practice in private first!

All up weight: This was a real problem for me as I have a Golf Plus 1.9 TDi and wanted to pull the boat out here with me. I asked and got a huge range of answers on the all out weight. I went to a DOT weigh bridge but was refused permission to take it on! Their quote was "If you get stopped and its overweight then you will be 'done' but we cannot let people just drive up and see if they are breaking the law"!

I 'think' it's about 2tons and the Golf pulled it all the way here without complaint. But I think I may have technically been breaking the law.

She has a big mast for small boat so expect plenty of overhang both in front and behind the trailer.

She's a great boat to sail though. I am a relative newbie and have found her to be responsive and fast. I may be biased though?
 
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The problem with upgrading the rigging to 5mm is that the terminals will be larger and therefore wont fit the current terminals. I am guessing you have T-terminals?

Who made the mast? Can you not just send them the old stuff and get it replaced. Dont go for a cheaper option, break the price down over the reccomended life span (according to most insurers) of being 10 years and its not so bad.

I would, personally, stick with what it was designed with. I would look at the breaking strain, I think you would be surprised. Ask beneteau?

Just a few thoughts....
 
Dan the man said:
The problem with upgrading the rigging to 5mm is that the terminals will be larger and therefore wont fit the current terminals. I am guessing you have T-terminals?

Who made the mast? Can you not just send them the old stuff and get it replaced. Dont go for a cheaper option, break the price down over the reccomended life span (according to most insurers) of being 10 years and its not so bad.

I would, personally, stick with what it was designed with. I would look at the breaking strain, I think you would be surprised. Ask beneteau?

Just a few thoughts....
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Hi and thanks for your thoughts.

It does have T-terminals and I think (without looking) it's a ZSpars mast. I want good gear though and as she is only 6 years old I sort of doubted the quality of the original stuff if it's showing such wear at this stage.

I am fine with standard but need a good quality supplier. Reading around does anyone know anything about the makers having ISO standards and a certificate with the rigging?
 
I would speak to Z-Spars, they could advise on upgrading the size, and they would be the people to get the new terminal plates from, and rigging to suit.
if it has been stowed badly, coiled up or what have you that can cause it to break. Where have the strands gone? Usually around the swage. When it is up and set right it should be held taught and shouldnt bend and cause fatigue and crack. I dunno....

I would speak to the experts, I certainly am not one!
 
Dan the man said:
I would speak to Z-Spars, they could advise on upgrading the size, and they would be the people to get the new terminal plates from, and rigging to suit.
if it has been stowed badly, coiled up or what have you that can cause it to break. Where have the strands gone? Usually around the swage. When it is up and set right it should be held taught and shouldnt bend and cause fatigue and crack. I dunno....

I would speak to the experts, I certainly am not one!
Click to expand...

Have just sent um an email so will see what happens.
 
Dry weight is 1100kg your vehicle, if its post 1996 is certified to tow 1200kg, so you scrape in empty with a light trailer. At sea level. You should lose approx 5% of cpability for every 350m climbed, so it adds up quickly. They don't tell you that in the books, but with a Turbo Diesel its not so much of a problem.
Personally I wouldn't do it, get a Passat Estate or similar.

By adding weight to the rigging, you will possibly upset the stability and heeling of the boat - weight aloft is to be avoided if possible. Or add a similar weight moment ot your ballast.
Besides, why upgrade? It hasnt fallen over so far?
 
ant
I wouldn't replace the rigging with larger. Rigging is normalle set up at a given percentage of breaking strength and with the larger size the loads on the boat when set to the proper tension will be higher. Also there is the issue of fitting sizes as has already been mentioned.
 
Rigging

As a long time owner of a similar (I imagine) 21fter no don't increase the size of the rigging. You do not want the added weight aloft. In fact if has a fractional rig you might even consider spectra type rope for the backstay. I am surprised that the forestay is fraying at 6 years old but yes it does indicate time for replacement.
I would suggest if my experience is anything similar that actual rigging of the boat from the trailer doesn't take long. Compared to getting in line to launch (in Oz) parking the car and trailer and of course the actual launch and finding a place to park the boat while parking the car. So I keep mine on a mooring.
Yes it would make a fine T/S. I am not familiar with the Golf but thought it a tiny car. You need mass on the towing vehicle for braking and stability. I am a fan of auto transmission for boat retrieval. I know these are not popular in UK though. good luck olewill
 
I suggest you have a look at the roller reefing as well, I once had a plastimo 406 cause the forestay to fray. May be that that the PVC liner in the foil has worn through and is catching on the wire causing it to unwind.

You can get spares from plastimo so no big deal if it has but well worth a look while the riggings down. The installation manuals also on the plastimo web site.
 
antcollins said:
Ello,

When I dropped the mast on my First 211 in October I found a couple of split strands at the top of the forestay so I think it's a prudent time to renew the lot and be sure. I live in Germany though I pop back to the UK semi regularly and would sooner do the talking in English. The standing rigging is simple on the F211 and so I was thinking of just taking the lot to a UK yard/supplier and just get it copied? Will this be a problem for the suppliers or the insurance?

Also the boats manual lists the shrouds and forestay as 4mm and the backstay as 3mm. If I up these by 1mm will it improve strength or cause me any problems?

Ant
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I can't see why it should cause anyone a problem - Try S3i

They made up the standing rigging (4 & 5mm??) for our last boat just from dimensions & fitting details for a very reasonable cost. They were mm perfect, too. (I'm sure they'd copy the old rigging if you sent it to them, but check first!)

Has the boat ever been used as a trailer sailer? Wear & tear on the forestay could be because of damage during the repeated rigging & de-rigging that happens with a trailer sailer - it doesn't need much to kink the wire, and the damage is done.

If you have roller furling: have you ever had a halyard wrap?

FWIW, I wouldn't go up a size unless there's a known problem of it being undersized with a particular class of boat.

Andy
 
Check the roller reefing gear (if fitted). I destroyed a couple of forestays on my boat with halyard wraps around the forestay while reefing or furling. Eventually got a rigger to fit a halyard deflector to cure the problem.
I wouldn't bother upgrading the wire sizes. I regularly sail against a First 211 and from what I've seen she's quite a tender boat and needs reefing early, so you won't get huge rig loads without corresponding huge angles of heel. Very fast boat for her size though.
 
Beneteau 21.7

Same boat with a few updates .. Really enjoyed it but not really enough room for a long weekend without facilities near by ..

I made a bridle up for the mast and that did work using the spinacre pole .. Ideally you need one with a Tabenackle but the French in their wisdom have a different set of holes .. Without one the mast hits the companion way hatch ..

I finished up with two windsurfer poles held vertically at the back with a pully on one and a line from the other .. It lifted the mast high enough to miss the coach roof and allowed it to locate in the mast step before lifting ..

I noticed with mine that everytime I arrived anywhere to put the mast up the wind increased to at least F8 and once up dropped to F1 ..

With the help of a friend who was a bit .. Yeh it will be ok :eek: We managed to get the mast out of line with the spinacre pole .. Yes the manual is right it pulled 3 rivets out of the mast step .. Not to bad but it also bent the mast foot .. I thought that riveting it back and getting the mast up would put it back but no .. It was Ok but did not fit squaely anymore ..

On the whole a great boat .. Very much like a dingy .. Just bigger ..

You do need an outboard with a long leg or see if you can find one with an extra long leg Tohatsu make one ..

You are right about time .. Used to take us about 90 minutes to get ready .. You also have to take the trailer in a long way to get her off / on ..
 
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davidwf said:
I suggest you have a look at the roller reefing as well, I once had a plastimo 406 cause the forestay to fray. May be that that the PVC liner in the foil has worn through and is catching on the wire causing it to unwind.

You can get spares from plastimo so no big deal if it has but well worth a look while the riggings down. The installation manuals also on the plastimo web site.
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I will take a look at that as it is close to the top roller point. Thanks.
 
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