Fire Extinguishers

[burgundyben]

A while ago we had a thread about fire extinguishers which I went back and had a look at and it did not seem to conclusive.

For me, the key questions are

1. When do I have to get rid of my Halon ones and how are they disposed of? (with all the fridges that have piled up?)

2. What are the replacement options? How effective are they? (secondary point is cost implication of halon replacements)

3. Is it correct that dry powder can damage your engine? Why? wots the powder made of?

So what are the answers and what questions have I missed?








Ooo, good evening officer.........

 

[Guest]

AFAIK, it will be an offence to be in possession of BCF (Halon) extinguishers in 2003. I have heard both 1 Jan and 31 Dec, but it's definitely 2003.

Replacement options are CO2, Dry Powder and another system (got mentioned in the earlier thread.

CO2 is bulky and expensive, and requires permanently plumbed in CO2 cylinders. They are big because it takes a lot of CO2 to smother a fire.

The third option is clean(-ish), non-damaging but expensive. From memory, I think in the region of £400+ for a twin engine 30 footer. It can be remotely triggered.

Dry Powder is now available in auto extinguishers suitable for engine bay use. You need bigger extinguishers than BCF (I fitted 2 x 2Kg powder to replace 2 x 1.3Kg BCF). The powder is very fine, and allegedly will go straight through your air filters if your engines are running. There have been horror stories of the powder mixing with oil/diesel and forming a grinding paste, needing a complete engine rebuild afterwards. Some insurers (allegedly) have refused to pay out for this repair work.

I checked with my insurers (Euromarine Insurance Services - very nice people, BTW), and they were fine with Dry Powder, and wrote to confirm that same. They also pointed out that not having any extinguishers voids the insurance...

 

[tr7v8]

Im not sure how you dispose of Halon, possibly the same way that the CFC based fridge gases are, that is treated and chemicaly changed.
Dry powder is a pain as it's very corrosive and gets every where, it's also not good to humans either.
As regards other options I've recently got involved in the Pyrogen range which do look to be the answer.
Send me a PM with you home address and I'll post you a brochure.

Jim
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[Stingray]

Some thoughts :-
- if there is a fire in one engine bay do the extinguishers go off in both engine bays?
- if you have dry powder and it totals the engines where does that leave you? Your insurance may well pay out but you have to get back to port first!

I have halon but it is not mounted in the engine bays but I would quite like to go over to these automatic systems provided I have a chance of making it back to port on the other engine.

 

[Geoffs]

Funny you should mention this, I've just been doing some research into this as the halon device in my engine bay is showing zero pressure. A bad thing!

I've found that Firemaster market a chemical extinguisher as halon replacement called Micro K. Details on Firemaster.co.uk. I've emailed them and they've sent details of their distributor in Southampton. I now have to contact them to get supply details prices etc.

Old Chinese proverb 'Man who sail boat into rice field, soon get into paddy'

 

[aztec]

1st problem... fire... make sure you can put it out!
2nd problem ...mess clean it up!
3rd problem... safety.. nah made it up!

halons are bad, but good at putting out fires. as are other media, dry powder will do it better (lower head to defensive position) it is better to put it out and deal with the clean up, than not put it out at all. pyrogen, is a good system, and i would recomennd it in favour of halon. when used automatically. i'm often on the receiving end of situations where... experts have "had a go". it's all very well in theory, but you need to make sure you can just walk away and know that the kit will do the job.... sorry to be borinng...

regards, steve.

ahh say what you like.... what's done is done!

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.amos/index.html

 

[JohnR]

There seems to be some abandonment of colour schemes for extinguishers and whilst I have an automatic Firebuoy system for the engine room using some new fangled gas my portable halon extinguishers are being painted black to make them look like CO2 and are mounted in a locker.

 

[aztec]

the colour scheme has not been abandonned, all extinguishers must be red (in line with the EU recomendations), in this country we use colour coding as per the old british standard. (not more than 5% of the body colour).

more importantly the type of fire the extinguisher is designed for is presented as a pictogram, to prevent confusion. and the operating instructions are simple to follow. this has come about because we brits had so many different types and operation of extinguishers, so they took the best and simplified the whole system.

i'm not sure about trying to "disguise" your old extinguisher, this in some cases could be counter productive, it's more important to recieve training in the correct use of extinguishers and the right type/number for your application. try a search on the net for Pyrogen, as a replacement for halon.

regards, steve.

ahh say what you like.... what's done is done!

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.amos/index.html

 

[alpha]

I may be a little pessimistic, but I carry ten extinguishers on my boat (32ft twin diesel) , including 2.5Kg automatic halon (and 2.5Kg dry powder because of difficulties mounting things at the right angle) in the engine bays near the fuel pumps, several 2.5Kg and 1.5Kg dry powder, and a big (6kg) AFFF. Of course, there's a fire blanket in the galley.

Have you ever used a halon extinguisher to put out a fire? Halon has the most unbelievable ability to knock down a fire, especially one in an enclosed space. Of course, it has no cooling effect, so you must know what you are doing.

Without doubt, if you can get away with having halon on your boat, do so. It is an order of magnitude more effective than anything else available.

The big AFFF was purchased on the advice of a specialist in fire protection, and although I might be accused of overkill, a fire at sea has enormous potential for harm. If I had petrol engines, I'd carry another one or two of these.

Finally, you need to know what you're doing with all these things. My job ensures that I receive fire training annually, including firing of live extinguishers, and this covers my need.

God forbid we should ever need any of this kit.

 

[ccscott49]

I agree with you, thereis a new type of "Halon" which is now on the market, but expensive! I carry seven in brackets, 4 BCF, 3 dry powder, two auto halon in the engine room and a fire blanket in the galley, I feel thats enough, plus a firehose! Its amazing what can be done just with water! and it doesn't cause too much damage, things can be dryed!

 

[stefan_r]

FM200?

so what's all this FM200 stuff that I keep seeing advertised as the next best thing to Halon???? Also see products pages of this months MBY

mailto: stefan@athito.com